If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point..... (page 2)

ninja

mormons,scientologists and heaven's gate all think/thought that they are/were doing the right things too....doesn't make it so

Gopher

if you were in a position like that which you mentioned, don't you think you would change the things you know to be wrong.

If "I" were in the position -- like on the Governing Body? They can only change things through a 2/3 vote. One person cannot change things there. They've left plenty of wromg things in place for too long, and they continue to do so. Up until the 1970s they didn't allow community service for its members who conscientiously objected to military service. So a lot of its young men spent years unnecessarily rotting in jails. They didn't fix their affiliation with the United Nations (as a non-governmental organization) until it was exposed on this website and in the UK newspaper "The Guardian". They still haven't fixed the corrupt "two witness" rule as applied to child molestors in the organization, leading to thousands of known molestors having a safe haven in the organization. There are many more examples.

I mean, the recent changes on just about everything being left up to our individual consciences, is a huge step

PLEASE -- do spell out what "recent changes" you refer to. Last I heard, the WTS leadership was still working hard on making and enforcing more and more specific rules on how rank-and-file JW's were to live life. When I was a child, there was a large "grey area" where people could make their own decisions. Starting in the early 1980's, all I heard was that the "brothers" were taking liberties in the grey areas and that the grey area was narrowing.

ataloa

I think in the beginning they probably did have good motives, but power, even a little bit, corrupts over time. Business gets big and all the decisions are made to sustain it; people become statistics.

I used to think that Babylon the Great would fall because money would be taken away; but now I think it's more about the power.

Think of an elder you know that is a complete ass (one that was not born in, but came in off the street). Very likely someone like that had a good heart in the beginning. But power corrupted.

No, over time, it becomes all about the ritual, as someone said. There is no love there. You can't seem to find anyone who even understands the principle of love on a practical day-to-day basis.

I went back and read some of your posts - you seem to be honestly searching for some answers. Your apology touched me. Not everyone here has abandoned all belief. I still believe the basic tenets of JW. If WBTS would issue a huge apology and all step down and stop all their foolishness, I would give it a second look.

journey-on

The GB and others in the upstair rooms of that organization remind me of the panhandler on the corner of the street

wearing old clothing and looking pathetic asking for a handout. You feel sorry for him because he holds up a sign

saying: "Hungry, please help." Then at the end of the day, he walks around the corner where no on sees him and

drives off in his brand new Mercedes! Who knew!? No one can possibly know how many side

corporations there are that service Mother's needs, under whose family name they are listed, or even where the bank

accounts are being held. There is absolutely no transparancy in an organization like that that is shielded by freedom

of religion. Who is going to audit them?....the IRS?

journey-on

Check this out:

http://www.nysdta.org/Decisions/813952.dec.htm

Scroll down to the very bottom and see just who the seller of record was. This property was worth big $$$!

1. Documents in the record indicate that the seller of record was the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. The relationship between Mrs. Bedford and the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania is not specified in the record.

oompa

JWFACTS: They honestly believe it to be the truth, and that they are benefiting people.

I soooo hate to agree with this. But to put in "worldly" terms, "these are some incredibly nice, sincere, honested hearted, and totally misguided motherfluckers"......oompa

The Oracle

Don't forget that each of the Governing Body was indoctrinated for decades prior to reaching that position. They honestly believe it to be the truth, and that they are benefiting people.
It is possible that some of the current GB have come to realise they are not directed by Jehovah (as occurred to R. Franz). However, it is a very difficult thing to leave. The GB have one of the powerful roles on earth (amongst their peers). They have accomodation, meals and cleaners and chauffers provided. They travel the globe. They are looked up to as the very hand of God, his direct spokesmen, receiving what borders on idolatry from many JW's. Imagine at the age of 60+, with no education, no "worldly" friends and no financial backing leaving that and starting a new life.

JWFacts hit the nail on the head.

It is very difficult to leave. The enitre cultish religion is designed to make it extremely hard on a person to even fade away. I have a wonderful friend who is trapped in this way, and he agonizes on a daily basis about the whole thing. Now just imagine if you were actually at Bethel with your entire life wrapped up in it....that would be exceedingly tough. That is what makes Ray Franz's move all the more remarkable. I would say there are hundreds, if not thousands of people in positions of great responsibility in circuit and district work, and at bethel homes all over the world who have had their awakenings and feel completely trapped. I also believe there are propably at least a couple GB members who feel this way. Being that close to the action...to the decision making process... you would almost HAVE TO KNOW it is a farce. It is for this reason I hold the GB 100% accountable for this entire mess.

It's a sad state of affairs, but I do see a crack in the armor. I honestly believe the core foundation of the WT is beginning to show its cavernous weaknesses. Their will always be dillussional people, and the simple and uneducated who will want to be a part of the WT world, but the intelligent and socially normally population of the JW ranks are all coming out - slowly but surely...the great Exodus is well on its way.

The Oracle

Quirky1

Oracle -

the intelligent and socially normally population of the JW ranks are all coming out - slowly but surely...the great Exodus is well on its way.

I find this to be the amusing part and the most interesting. Even tho I still consider myself a newbie to JWD I have seen a growth of newbies forming on this site everyday.

Oompa - you crack me up!

Have fun!

Quirky1

Homerovah the Almighty

What is the Point ?

Power, privilege , status and a livelihood, I met a GB member once and you could easily see his pumped up stature and personality

These are the very things that the men like Judge Rutherford and alike saw the potential and lets not forget the money.

This international billion dollar pyramid was built and created on a formulation of lying deceptive propaganda sold directly to the general public

Unfortunately it worked.

Sure it may be true that the GB members aren't wearing Rolex watches and Armaini suits but for some men the power and privilege is enough, particularly when

they look down from where they come from in the organization, standing up on top of the tower is very good indeed.

And where else could a poorly educated individual rise to such levels of power in a huge Corporation like this ?

Quandry

This may be the topic of an old thread but, if the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point of the whole religion?

I have wondered this myself.

Of course, few witneses really know about the history of the religion. Few know that Russell was influenced by Egyptology, the prevailing popular ideology of the mid to late 1800's, and that he got the year 1914 from measuring a pyramid, calling it "God's great stone witness." Few know that Rutherford had a palatial house built in San Diego, deeded it to "ancient worthies" who were soon to be resurrected, and stayed in it during the winter, driving one of his two sixteen cylinder cadillacs.

Ray Franz described meetings of the governing body. One I found interesting was concerning how several years ago (I think in the 80's) they determined the appropriateness of certain sex acts among married people. It seems there was a case in South America concerning a woman wanting to know if she was scripturally free to remarry. Her husband had had sex with animals, and also anal intercourse with a woman. The governing body talked about this for a while. Franz reported that no prayer was said before determination of any outcome, nor were scriptures studied to examine the issue. They stated that while degrading, the woman was not free to remarry because the sex could produce no offspring. The woman, who would not take her husband back, because she could not remain with a man who'd had sex with an animal, remarried and was disfellowshipped for adultery.

Later, the GB decided to look into the issue further. They stated that any anal or oral sex was like a prostiture, and should not be done. Many married couples decided to confess to elders that they had engaged in this type of sex. This caused many embarassing sessions in the "back room" and some were disfellowshipped.

Later, of course, the "new light" was reversed. But how many marriages did this destroy? How much humiliation to many?

How many more situations could we describe? The WTS being a non-governmental associate of the UN? The generation changes? The 1935 changes with ever increasing numbers of annointed? New governing body members much younger? The nethinim? (that one seems to have gone away) Changes in blood doctrine-no whole but O.K. in components?

Yes, I have wondered about the whole thing many times. It seems at this point it is just self-perpetuating.........

If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....

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