I Do Not Understand Why JWs Leave & Become Catholics! (page 9)

Tom Cabeen

Hi Min,

Your statements raise some questions. Can you provide some clarification?

First, if the church as a whole "apostasized from the very beginning", on what basis could schisms recognized as such? Is not some main body of disciples, who share orthodox ("right teaching") beliefs presupposed, from which body schismatics separate themselves? What do you think of the possibility, based on, for example, what we find in Paul's letters to the Corinthians or the letters to the Asian congregations which form the opening chapters of the Revelation, that a worldwide community of believers could preserve "orthodoxy" (true teachings and practices) even if a significant number of its members failed miserably to live by those teachings and practices?

Second, if the meeting described in Acts 15 is counted as a "council," the second council identified historically was held in Nicea in 325, nearly three centuries after Pentecost. Do you see that council as having any legitimate authority to "deal with heretical beliefs"? I am using the word "heresy" to describe a "contrary opinion", a teaching that differs significantly from that held by the main body of Christians; for example, the idea that Jesus Christ was a created being with a beginning in time rather than a divine being begotten outside of time (Arianism).

According to biblical Bruce Metzger (in The Canon of the New Testament, its Origin, Development and Significance), "the process by which certain Christian writings gradually came to occupy a unique status of sacredness and authority in the Church" (pg 251) was a long process that occurred during at least three to four centuries. The NT canon was finally confirmed late in the fourth century.

As explained by Hillaire Belloc, (in Survivals and New Arrivals, pp 29-38), although the Jews accepted its authority, it was only on the authority of the Church (during approximately the same time three to four hundred year period) that the Old Testament came to take on the status of Sacred Scripture among the Gentiles nations, who had no other reason to consider the sacred writings of some small, insignificant people like the Jews (at least in the Roman view) as anything special.

So here is my third question: Assuming these respected scholars to be correct about their respective areas of expertise, is it possible that it was a completely corrupt and apostate Church was the same one who identified and preserved the Scriptures which now enjoy virtually universal acceptance by all Christians?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this.

Tom Cabeen

Finally-Free

I can't speak for minimus, but I'm surprised at how many people have jumped to the Catholic Church's defense.

First, I'll make it clear that I'm not affiliated with any church. Having been raised as a Catholic and converting to the jws at 26, I've seen what both religions have to offer firsthand. No catholic ever abused me or hounded me in any way as the jws did. As for child molestation, I don't have statistics but I would venture to guess the jws likely have a higher rate on a per capita basis. I have no doubt the JWs would have their own inquisition and commit atrocities if they were greater in number and thought they could get away with it. Instead, they leave the butchering of innocent men, women, and children to Jehovah at armageddon. They have the desire to see 6 billion people killed, they just don't have the means to carry it out.

how people can wake up to one abusive cult but defend another is beyond any logic that I can comprehend.

The catholic church a cult? Has the definition of the word "cult" been broadened?

W

S3RAPH1M

(Revelation 2:2) ". . .‘I know your deeds, and your labor and endurance, and that you cannot bear bad men, and that you put those to the test who say they are apostles, but they are not, and you found them liars."

undercover

The catholic church a cult? Has the definition of the word "cult" been broadened?

From Merriam-Websters:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult

Main Entry:

cult

Pronunciation:

\ ' k?lt\

Function:

noun

Usage:

often attributive

Etymology:

French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate — more at wheel

Date:

1617

1 : formal religious veneration : worship 2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual ; also : its body of adherents 3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious ; also : its body of adherents 4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults> 5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book) ; especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : the object of such devotion c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

BurnTheShips

It's a fair bet that more Catholic children have been abused than JW children.

Fewer Catholic priests, as a percentage of the total, have been abusers than the general population and the public education system.

BTS

BurnTheShips

By going with a broad definition, they are divesting the term of all pejorative meaning.

BTS

undercover

Fewer Catholic priests, as a percentage of the total, have been abusers than the general population and the public education system.

Wow...I guess they do have holy spirit poured upon them then

undercover

By going with a broad definition, they are divesting the term of all pejorative meaning.

On the contrary...I'm lumping the Catholic church in with all other groups that deserve the label...

If you don't flinch when the Watchtower is called a cult, why flinch when the Catholic church is called one? By definition it is one...

Satanus

The meaning of the word cult has changed, during the last 400 yrs. Back then, it meant religion. In the french, it is still used that way. However, in english, it has come to mean a high control group.

S

BurnTheShips

Wow...I guess they do have holy spirit poured upon them then

As individuals, we are all sinners.

BTS

I Do Not Understand Why JWs Leave & Become Catholics!

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