The Watchtower's biggest enemy is time...or more exactly, the passing of time. People can only be kept on the edge of their seats for so long before they begin to get restless... and start questioning.
The WTS will go more mainstream re 1914 in the decade after 2014
by yadda yadda 2 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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yadda yadda 2
Did anyone read my suggested changes? Anyone think they are plausible? How would you do it if you were the Watchtower writers?
The hardest task will be to fit all this around the 607bce/7times/ 2520 years chronology. How would they adjust the current understanding of the "7 times" and the "gentile times"?
They could do it by simply unshackling the "seven times" (Daniel 4:16) from meaning the same as the "appointed times of the nations (gentiles)" (Luke 21: 46). The long-held interpretation is they both cover the same 2520 year period but any fool can see that there is simply no reason to link Luke 21:46 to Daniel 4:16. There is not the slightest reason in Jesus' words in Luke 21:46 to suggest he is harking back to the destruction of Jerusalem over 500 years earlier in 586/607bce. In Luke 21, Jesus is clearly alluding to the future trampling of Jerusalem in 70ce, not the ancient one in 586/607bce.
They could easily bring out "new light" that the "7 times" simply has a broad meaning along the lines of the 'full passing of time for the completion of something to do with God's rulership', or something general and vaguish like that. It would be a similar approach to their 1995 new light on the "generation", ie, rejecting the idea that the phrase "generation" was used by Jesus to mean a precise number of years like 70 or 80. They could just take the same approach with the "7 times" or the "appointed times of the nations" by saying that these phrases are not meant to indicate a predetermined specific number of years for counting forward in time, such as counting 2520 years, they are just general expressions indicating broad passages of time in the outworking of God's timetable. They can just leave the end date open to finish at some time in the indeterminate, but always near future time, when Jesus comes in power and glory per Matt 29:30 - when the GT breaks out. Easy!
The "appointed times of the nations" could likewise be easily adjusted to have a new starting point of 70AD when Jerusalem was sacked and the Christians had to flee into the wilderness until when Jesus returns in the future to take up his kingship at the "great tribulation".
So they could very easily say the "seven times" starts in 607bce (really 586) but ends when Jesus comes in power and glory in the (near) future....
...and the "appointed times of the nations" could be adjusted to start in 70AD and also ends when Jesus comes in power and glory in the (near) future...
....that would remove both from having to end on 1914! After all, any damn fool can see that the gentile nations are still ruling this planet the same as they always have so it would make a lot more sense to say that the "gentile times" are still going..
Is anyone following me?
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hamsterbait
They can hang onto 1914, as well as get rid of the 607 claim, which anybody can verify as baloney.
The first study books for newly interested ones already do not mention 607, the 7 "times of Daniel" or the banded tree.
They just assert "all the evidence shows that we have been living in the Time of the End since 1914."
If the gofor asks "HOW?" they just point to WWI as fulfilling Jesus words at Matt 24.
HB
Interestingly, the first study books hardly discuss the blood issue, neither does the intended second study book. So changes must be impending here too.
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Awakened07
Sorry, I'm too exhausted from carrying heavy things (long story) to go into the doctrines, but it seems they'd do something along the lines of what you're saying. To be honest though, it seems to me they don't really care anymore if what they're saying is inconsistent or not. They just sneak in 'new light' in a way that makes many active Witnesses go: "Changes? What changes? That's just apostate lies!" and keep teaching away the old doctrines.
For the 'rank & file' (at least the older gen.), it's enough that the world seems to get worse - doctrine; eeh - not so much. Of course, they ignore (or disagree with) the positive changes that happen, but there's no denying that there are more and more people on earth(!). Everything affects more people, since we live all over the place now. Many people are surprised to learn that the world's population has increased from a 'meager' 2.5 billion in 1950 to almost 7 billion today. Not so strange then, that earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes and what have you affect more people and infrastructure than before.
So, the R&F drone on, some teaching away outdated doctrines, while they - every single day - watch the news for any bad news they can find (and lately that hasn't been hard). What I hear from my elderly parents is not "Remember that in the year 1919 the WBTS were chosen...blah blah". No, all I ever hear instead, is "Oh, did you see the news about that catastrophe?? We're really getting close now! It's just getting worse and worse, since 1914, just as we've been told."
-If mankind finally started a worldwide nuclear war, Witnesses would watch whatever television stations left as the stations were blown to smithereens one-by-one, and when the last surviving news broadcast said its last words before a bomb hit them, the Witnesses left would think to themselves: "Oh, so this is how Jehovah decided to do things. Finally, it happened." How that would fit in with doctrine and the date of that day would be of lesser consequence to them. IMO.
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dozy
Interesting analysis , Yadda.
My view - I’m taking the assumption as backed up in Franz's books that the WTS leaders actually believe what they say is true , rather than the common “apostate” view that they know that it isn’t true & are cynically manipulating or adjusting their ideas to maintain their position & keep most of the R&F on board & on message.
On that basis , I reckon that the 1914 teaching is essentially safe in the present form till well into the 21 st century. By linking the “Last days” to Noah’s 120 year timescale (WT 15th Dec 2003 p15) they are “safe” till at least 2034.
More and more elders and MS's are resigning their positions and duties, meeting attendance is dropping quickly, and general apathy and atrophy is setting in. This downward trend is going to force them to re-think the whole 1914 creed in the years ahead.
This is certainly true among some (me included!) , but I also see great enthusiasm among many JWs. In the UK , there are consistent all-time peaks of regular pioneers - many JWs are increasingly zealous for foreign language congs. Also fast growth in the 3rd world & amongst immigrant communities. Year-on-year 3% growth. And anyway , the GB & most Bethelites are in an ivory tower situation - immune from & generally unaware of any criticism from the r&f. The only feedback they get are from Bethel reps who are placemen relying on their position on the GB - they generally only tell them what they want to hear , even if they secretly harbour doubts.
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Mickey mouse
I agree that changes will be necessary but witnesses have such short memories that the past beliefs become irrelevant as soon as they step out of the KH following a "new light" WT study.
Dozy, maybe things are different where you are but here our congregations are contracting and there are fewer elders and ministerial servants. Youngsters are leaving in droves. We've recently had a batch leave school and not one is pioneering. The only growth area is the foreign language field.
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oompa
steve2: The Watchtower's biggest enemy is time...or more exactly, the passing of time. People can only be kept on the edge of their seats for so long before they begin to get restless... and start questioning
Funny...some people can be on the edge of their seat til death.....like my parents.............oompa
so it can keep going
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besty
The Watchtower's biggest enemy is time...or more exactly, the passing of time. People can only be kept on the edge of their seats for so long before they begin to get restless... and start questioning.
This is true and it translates into churn - turnover of members - and something the WTS is well aware of.
If x people leave every year all the WTS is concerned with is recruiting (x+1), thus showing net growth.
The KH's should have revolving doors.