Illegals and Job Growth (page 4)

5go

1) Build barrier and adequately fund and staff border control.

Funny we have a river on the border of Texas and it doesn't stop them from crossing. Also the border patrol can only be in some many places at once even if you were to increase then to a million man force it wouldn't stop border crossing the border with Mexico is huge. Even if you put cameras all along the border it would take an hour to reach some places via plane. Plenty of time to hide or getaway. Assuming that you even spot them do to the fact taking out a camera or sensor isn't to hard.

BurnTheShips

Funny we have a river on the border of Texas and it doesn't stop them from crossing. Also the border patrol can only be in some many places at once even if you were to increase then to a million man force it wouldn't stop border crossing the border with Mexico is huge. Even if you put cameras all along the border it would take an hour to reach some places via plane. Plenty of time to hide or getaway. Assuming that you even spot them do to the fact taking out a camera or sensor isn't to hard.

So what do you propose? Abandoning the border? Your logic would dictate defunding police forces all across the country based on the futility of law enforcement predicated on the fact that you can't catch every criminal. The current border enforcement program is woefully negligent.

My point is this: Improve surveillance and interdiction at the border and eliminate/reduce the pull that employment provides for illegal immigrants by enforcing already existing employment laws.

Also, millions of illegals returning to Mexico would have a tremendous political impact--an impact for the better I believe.

BTS

XJW4EVR

"The reality is that at least 12 million illegal aliens are here... You can't deport 4% of the US population, so they are not going anywhere, and they keep on coming in..."

Actually, Oklahoma and Arizona have seen a net loss in illegal immigrants due to the laws that have been enacted that turn off the benefits to these people. The illegal immigrants have in essence, self-deported. Therefore the logic is simple, turn off the magnets, and they will return to their countries of origin.

"You make it sound like all the crimes and murders committed in the US are caused by illegal aliens..."

Nice rabbit hole. Want to actually try making an argument?

"Most illegal immigrants that I know come here to escape poverty in their home country, and come here to work. Studies have been done that demonstrate that this does stimulate local economies, since many aliens decide to work as entrepreneurs."

No, that is not necessarily true. Other studies have been done that show the following:

A 2005 Pew Hispanic Center survey, found that of those illegal immigrants how had been in the United States two years or less, only 5% came because they lacked work in their country of origin.

In January of this year, Los Angeles County Supervisor, Mike Antonovich declared that illegal aliens were costing county taxpayers in excess of $1 billion dollars a year. This is just one county in the United States. Which begs the question, what is the cost to the nation? The U.S. Census Bureau discovered in 2002 that illegal immigrants created a net deficit at the federal level of $10 billion dollars after considering all taxes paid (direct & indirect). They also estimated that if amnesty was granted that deficit would grow to $29 billion.

"Maybe this illegal alien will be operating on your xenophobic brains one day"

This is the same old and tired argument that those of us that fight illegal immigration hear all the time. The only thing that it signifies is that you have lost the argument. It is another manifestation of the Hitler fallacy.

5go

So what do you propose? Abandoning the border? Your logic would dictate defunding police forces all across the country based on the futility of law enforcement predicated on the fact that you can't catch every criminal. The current border enforcement program is woefully negligent.
My point is this: Improve surveillance and interdiction at the border and eliminate/reduce the pull that employment provides for illegal immigrants by enforcing already existing employment laws.
Also, millions of illegals returning to Mexico would have a tremendous political impact--an impact for the better I believe.
BTS

No I wasn't saying abandon the border. We have done every thing we can with it unless you want to have higher taxes to build a Berlin wall style structure and have armed guards killing all those that dare cross. I say give killer fines to those caught employing illegals. In fact re-institute the corporate death penalty. Any corporation found employing illegal loses it's corporate protections.

BurnTheShips

We have done every thing we can with it unless you want to have higher taxes to build a Berlin wall style structure and have armed guards killing all those that dare cross.

No we haven't done everything we can with it, and only your dichotomous thinking would suggest that a Berlin-style structure would be the alternative. The current setup on the border is barely an improvement on nothing at all.

BTS

yknot

I think it would be wise to deport those not legally here, but the undertaking because of former lax enforcement makes it extremely daunting.

There are not enough INS officers.

There are not enough holding facilities (read jails) for individual/families who file protest.

However the illegal labor problem is the reason I am back in school, my husband has a hard time competing. He pays his contractors and labors wages that allow them to support their families with dignity. Unfortunately it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who is going to land more contracts if they are only paying laborers $3-$8 per hour or how much our personal profit for each project becomes less and less. He has a great crew of skilled, efficient, and moral men working for him, I don't know how much longer he can keep his company running, but it doesn't look good.

We need to wean our nation off of cheap illegal labor.

Institute a viable work program that allows for a percentage of foreign workers but still shows preference to Americans.

Yep......I am becoming a protectionist, well at least until we are firmly seated as number one in global markets and finance again.

So please buy local, and buy American and if you are an employer only use American or legal employees.

5go

No we haven't done everything we can with it, and only your dichotomous thinking would suggest that a Berlin-style structure would be the alternative. The current setup on the border is barely an improvement on nothing at all.

You are basically talking out of your butt I have been to the border you will be stopped by border patrol if you cross the border through normal routes. Most illegal traffic goes through the thousands of miles of uncontrollable desert. Unless you want tax rates that make the european tax rates look small it will be impossible to make it tighter. If the illegals can get through the us army reserves that have been patrolling the desert since Bush ordered them there. Then more border patrol isn't going to do squat.

beksbks

Big business loves illegals. Republicans love big business. It's not the fact that these people are here, the problem is that they are illegal. They drive the wages down. Employers need to be prosecuted, and we need to send some type of message that being here illegally is not going to result in jobs, to stop the influx. Exactly how to do all that I dunno, but when you hear Bush discuss this issue, know that he and his, don't actually want to put a stop to this problem.

As far as the price of food going up if these jobs pay better, isn't it likely that the economy in general will do better when the bulk of the populace is making more money to spend?

wha happened?

I have hired a number of people in the past and in California, I am required by law to present a copy of their SS# card to verify who they are & status. If it's a fake they get fired. Period.

I'm for enforcement. But I'm also for a reasonable limitation with reasonable laws. I want to know the real ID of the person living down the street from me. I also want them to have the ability to have a drivers license, so they will be an insured driver. Open the way for persons here and working to get legitimate, then enforce the laws. The problems with amnesty in the past is that after the amnesty period passes nothing changes.

One should also take note that the south border is not the only problem. The oceans are another border that are wide open. I have a neighbor from England who is here illegally. She has no drivers license or insurance and she drives to work everyday. She will/is a drain on our economy. If she gets sick she goes to county hospitals. If she gets into an accident she will have no means to pay it. She has fake ID and no one questions her because she speaks perfect English.

I think that investment in countries can make a difference. When jobs in a country increase so does their outflow of people. Help that country become more middle class.

Awakened at Gilead

I think that investment in countries can make a difference. When jobs in a country increase so does their outflow of people. Help that country become more middle class.

This is a key to the problem. As long as people feel that living as an illegal alien is better than living as a second class citizen in a poor country they will still risk their lives to cross the desert or the sea. And many just walk in with tourist visas and then never leave, like your English friend.

Of course, easier said than done. Latin American and African countries are well known for their corruption. So governmental aid will likely just line the pockets of the already wealthy, and the poor little slavebuggers will still want to cross the border.

Illegals and Job Growth

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