5 Points to disprove The Truth

freedomfighter

Hi guys and gals! I will be visiting my Jw parents in 2 months time. I am DF'd and no longer believe. My father is an Elder and my mum is fanatical. Can u give me just 5 points to bring up if necessary to help them understand why i now do not believe? Five points or arguments that may get them thinking seriously about what the org is teaching? Your help would be appreciated Regards FF

SirNose586

Well first off, let me wish you luck right now. You're going to need it. It doesn't sound like your folks are going to listen to you, if your dad is an elder and mom an elderette.

But you've got to give us something to go on....I mean, if you don't believe any more, what was it that opened your eyes? Having 5 points wouldn't matter if you don't care about them.....

Besides, all you really need is one point, if well developed.

boyzone

607 definately wasn't the year the Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians so they can't get the 2520 years to 1914. Without 1914 they're nothing.

What about the faithful and discreet slave "class". No mention of a "class" in Matt 24 v 45.

Why would Jesus choose a lying, false prophet organization to represent him in 1918? Deut 18 v 20-22

Luke 21 v 8. Jesus warned us not to follow those that say "the due time has approached"

Did they know the Society were NGO members of the UN for 10 years, they were busy fornicating with the wild beast.

Honesty

If Jesus was resurrected as an invisible spirit, like the WatchtowerSociety teaches, why did Jesus say he was going to raise his physical body from the dead (John 2:19-22)?

If Jesus, the man, ceased to exist at his death and was raised from the dead as Michael the Archangel, why did Michael deceive the apostles into believing that they were witnessing Jesus in a resurrected physical body (Luke 24:39)?

Why did the Watchtower magazine (Nov 15, 1981, page 21) say to "come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation" when Jesus never directed us to an organization for salvation but to him?

If Jesus’ invisible presence began in 1914, like the Watchtower Society teaches, why was their teaching in 1929 that Jesus’ invisible presence began in 1874? How did they finally figure out that that teaching was false?

Reference: "Prophecy", 1929, page 65.

If we pay for our personal sins when we die, like the Watchtower teaches, how will the great crowd who survive Armageddon pay for their sins since they will never die but go right on living into the millennium?

Johan Hultgren

I would recomend you to buy and read the book: "Captives of a Concept" by Don Cameron. Think that this book will give you some good thougts!

still_in74

there are so many things, but unfortunately most of them they will just brush off upon first glance. You cant be aggresive or argumentative. You have to be a thinker to get them thinking.

My thing lately has been "New Light". There has been a lot of it lately. But what is new light? What was wrong with the old light?

You could ask:
Q - "Did the Holy Spirit mislead the organization?"

A: "Of course not! Its like using a flashlight in a dark room, we are only given a little bit of light at a time so we are not blinded all at once"

Q - "Why would the Holy Spirit give wrong Light?"

A - "it isnt wrong, it is just refined"

Q - "how is changing the Generation teaching from those of 1914, to wicked people, then to the annointed a refinement? Isnt that a complete avant face?

A - "well sometimes we only understand prophecies as they are being fulfilled, so the FDS knows better as to what is happening now"

Q - "But Jehovah knows everything, and he doesnt lie. And if the FDS only understands prophecies after they are fulfilled then were they just guessing about these before? I mean, if the HS didnt lie to them, then how did they come to that conclusion?"

At this point they will get defensive and angry because they dont know how to answer you. The only answer is that it was human, fleshly reasoning - NOT LIGHT

You could continue that recent WT articles show that the FDS do not posses "special insights" and that the FDS "draws certain conclusions" about events. They have disconnected themselves from "inspiration" from Jehovah so they can avoid being labelled false prophets, yet they still credit themselves with "Light".
Problem is, "Light", or instruction from the apostles/prophets, is ALWAYS assoicated with HS - and of cousre the apostles were "filled with HS" according to scripture.

You are effectively undermining the only thing the GB hasnt given up yet - LIGHT. With LIGHT millions of JW's unquestionabley change their beliefs with the flip of a page. The GB knows better because Jehovah gives them LIGHT. Look, NEW LIGHT is in the bible!

If you like this line of reasoning check out my other thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/158294/2906453/post.ashx#2906453
There I quote scriptures and cite WT articles for reference.Let them be on the defense!!Remember, they are the ones defending a religion they dont question. Make them ask questions they havent thought of the answer to ahead of time!

Good luck!

sacolton

Q-1. The WTS claims it uses the Bible as it's "supreme authority". Where in the Bible does anyone count their time in preaching on a slip of paper and are assigned record cards of activity, determining this as a "gauge to their spirituality"? Where in the Bible are Pioneers, Auxiliary Pioneers, District Overseers, Circuit Overseers, Bethelites, and Kingdom Halls?

Q-2. To what was Jesus referring to by the term "this temple" in John 2:18-19? In John 2:21 John clearly states that when Jesus used the term "this temple", he was referring to his body. If what the WTS teaches about Jesus' body after his death is correct, then how do you explain these verses?

Q-3. If the Holy Spirit is God's impersonal "active force", why does he speak directly and refer to himself as "I" and "me" in Acts 13:2?

Q-4. Col 1:16. If Jesus were Michael the Archangel at the time of creation, would an angel have created all things for himself? Isaiah 43:7 Q-5. The WTS claims that Ezekial's prophrcy of the Jews returning to their land is fulfilled in their organization. Ezek 36:24, 28. If this is fulfilled in the Watchtower organization, then how are they returning to the land CANAAN as promised to the forefathers? Ps 105:8-11

Q-6. Consider also what is said concerning those who fulfill this prophecy. Ezek 36:22. Since the WTS claims that it is spiritual Israel and fulfills these prophecies in Ezekial, how do Jehovah's Witnesses believe they have profaned God's name among the nations? Q-7. Since the WTS prohibits the use of blood transfusions, why does it permit the infusion of albumin, clotting factors, and gamma globulins, all of which are derived from human blood? Since Acts 15:29. (Gen 9:4, Lev 3:17, Deut 12:16). And since the WTS has changed its teachings so many times on major issues like organ transplantation, the definition of "generation", the year of Armageddon, etc, etc, and simply calls these changes "New Light", how can you be sure they won't some day change their teachings on blood transfusions and refer to the change as "New Light" also? Q-8. Does Prov 4:18 really justify an organiztion replacing doctrines and failed prophecies with new doctrines and prophecies, or does it simply contrast the benefit to the "righteous" of obeying a wise father (Prov 4:10-19)? False teachings can be called "false words" and Prov 13:5. When the WTS changes a teaching to something that is totally different, is it like a light that is getting brighter and brighter or more like having one false light (word) completely turned off and a totally different light turned on? Do you think the WTS would be critical of any other organization that changed its teachings as many times on as many different issues over the last 100 years as the WTS has? Q-9. Regarding Jesus' return to earth, JW's believe that it occurred in 1914 as an invisible return. That event is described in Zechariah 14:4. If Jesus has no body and if his return was invisible, how do you explain this verse?

Q-10. Paul said. (1 Cor 11:26). If Christ arrived in 1914, why do JW's continue to partake of the bread and wine? Shouldn't they have stopped in 1914? Q-11. Since the WTS claims "apostolic succession", can it trace its roots all the way back to Christ (Matthew 16:18)? If so, who was it that "passed the torch of God's spirit" to C. T. Russell when he founded the organization? What was the name of this individual or individuals?

Q-12. The NWT translates John 1:1 as "...and the Word was WITH God, and the word was a god." How can the Word (Jesus) be 'a god' if God says in Deut 32:39? Q-13. The WTS teaches that the 144,000 of Rev 7:4 is to be taken literally. If chapter 7 of Revelation is to be taken literally, where then does the Bible say that the 144,000 will come from? See Rev 7:5-8.

Q-14. Since the WTS currently rejects most of the teachings of its founder, Charles Taze Russell (who was president of the organization from 1879-1916), and since they also reject "judge" Joseph Franklin Rutherford, who succeeded Russell as president from 1916-1942, how can you be sure that in 25 more years, the WTS won't reject the current president, Milton Henschel (1992-present), as they did Russell and Rutherford? What kind of confidence can you have in an organization that rejected its founder and first two presidents for the first 63 years of its existence - over 50% of the time they have existed? Q-15. If there is no conscious awareness after death, how could the "spirits in prison", who lived during the time of Noah, be preached to by Christ after His death (1 Pet 3:18-20) and how could the good news be "declared even unto the dead" (1 Pet 4:5-6)?

Q-16. Since the WTS has received "new light" regarding the 1914 generation, and completely changed their views on this, does this mean that all the former Witnesses who were disfellowshipped years ago for the same view the organization is now teaching will automatically be accepted back into fellowship again? Were these ex-Witnesses in fact disfellowshipped for what is now taught as "the Truth"? Q- 17. If there are 144,000 spirit anointed people who have a heavenly hope, and a great crowd of people who have another hope of everlasting life on paradise earth, why does Paul say that there is only ONE hope (Eph 4:4), instead of two? Q-18. On pgs. 66, 69, 211, 423, 560, 648, 719 of JW's--Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, reference is made to The Finished Mystery, which was the 7th of the Studies in the Scriptures series published by the WTS in 1917 (pg 66, 719), and was the major publication of the WTS as that time. On pgs 88, 648, 651, a picture of this book appears, complete with the winged disk symbol of the Egyptian sun god Ra on its front cover. Is it true The Finished Mystery taught that Christ was the Almighty of Rev 1:8 (pg 15), that Christ established a "Church" (pg 17), that Christ returned invisibly in 1874 (pg 54, 60, 68), that the Holy Spirit has a personality (pg 57), that the great pyramid of Giza was God's stone witness and was used to predict the year of Armageddon (pg 60), that Armageddon would definitely occur in the spring of 1918 (pg 62), that Christ was crucified (pg 68), that Leviathan of the Bible refers to the steam locomotive (pg 85), and that Michael is the Pope of Rome and the angels are his bishops (pg 188)? According to "current" WTS teachings, Christ returned invisibly in 1914 and in 1918 chose the WTS as his earthly organiztion because they were the only ones teaching "the Truth", if this was so, then Jesus would have known the teachings of the WTS as put forth in The Finished Mystery, published in 1917. Q-19. In John 20:28, John refers to Jesus in Greek as "Ho kyrios moy kai ho theos moy". This translates literally as "the Lord of me and THE God of me". Why does Jesus, in John 20:29, affirm Thomas for having come to this realization? If Jesus really wasn't the Lord and THE God of Thomas, why didn't Jesus correct him for making either a false assumption or a blasphemous statement?

Q-20. If Christ will not have a visible return to earth, then how will he be seen by (Matthew 24:30), and by (Rev 1:7) How can Christ "APPEAR" a second time (Heb 9:28) if he will not have a visible return to earth? Q-21. In Rev 19:1, where does it say that the great crowd will be?

Q-22. If the Holy Spirit is God's impersonal active force, how could he: Be referred to as "he" and "him" in John 16:7-8 and John 16:13-14; Bear witness (John 15:26); Feel hurt (Isaiah 63:10); Be blasphemed against (Mark 3:29); Say things (Ezek 3:24, Acts 8:29, Acts 10:19; Acts 11:12, Heb 10:15-17); Desire (Gal 5:17); Be outraged (Heb 10:29); Search (1 Cor 2:10); Comfort (Acts 9:31); Be loved (Rom 15:30); Be lied to and be God (Acts 5:3-4)? Q-23. What is the correct spelling of God's proper name, "Yahweh" or "Jehovah"? If JW's maintain that "Yahweh" is more proper, why do they misspell it "Jehovah"? If the name of God is so important, then should you not only pronounce it correctly, but spell it correctly too?

Q-24. John 1:3, but in Isaiah 44:24. Question "Who was with me?" when the heavens and the earth were created. How can this be since if Jesus had been created by God, then he would have been with God ehen everything else was created? Q-25. If the soul is the body, why does Jesus make a distinction between the body and the soul in Matthew 10:28?

Q-26. In Col 1:15-17, the NWT inserts the word "other" 4 times even though it is not in the original Greek (See Gr-Engl Interlinear). Why is the word "other" inserted? How would these verses read if the word "other" has not been inserted? What does scipture say about adding words to the Bible? See Prov 30:5-6. Q-27. In Phil 2:9, the NWT insets the word "other" even though it doesn't appear in the original Greek (See Gr-Engl Interlinear). What is the reason for inserting this word? Is the word "Jehovah" a name? See Exo 6:3, Ps 83:18, Isaiah 42:8. How would the verse read if the word "other" had not been inserted? What does scripture say about adding words to the Bible? See Prov 30:5-6. If Christians are persecuted for the sake of Jehovah's name, why did Christ tell the first Christians that they would be persecuted for the sake of his (Jesus) name, instead of Jehovah's (Matthew 24:9, Mark 13:13, Luke 21:12, 17, John 15:21, Acts 9:16)? If the name "Jehovah" is so important, then why does Acts 4:12 [vs 10Jesus Christ]? If the teachings of the WTS are correct, would this not have been the logical place for God to have used the name "YHWH" or "Jehovah"? Since the word "Jehovah" didn't appear until at least the 12th century, and since the term "Jehovah's Witnesses" wasn't used by the WTS until the early 1930's, doesn't this mean that the first century Christians were not known as "Jehovah's Witnesses"? Q-28. The WTS make the claim, "Like the Primitive Christian Community - the religious publication 'Interpretation' stated in Jul 1956: 'In their organization and witnessing work, they [JW's] come as close as any group to approximating the primitive Christian community..." - JW's-Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, pg 234, and on pg 677 of the same book, a caption appears titled "Like the early Christians". Do JW's pray the "Our Father" (Matthew 6:9-13), break bread together (celebrate the Eucharist) frequently (1 Cor 10:16-17, 1 Cor 11:26-27), come together on Sunday to break bread (Acts 20:7), confirm the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands (Acts 8:15-17, Acts 19:5-6, Heb 6:2, 2 Tim 1:6) Q-29. In Rev 14:13, how can the dead be "happy" and find "rest", if there is no conscious awareness after death?

Q-30. Is it true that the WTS's prophecy that Armageddon will come before "the end of the generation of 1914" (You Can Live Forever In Paradise On Earth, pg 154), is no longer taught as "the Truth"? If so, than does this mean that this teaching of the WTS, which they have taught as "the Truth" for decades, was really a false teaching? Since the WTS claims that they are the "one channel that the Lord is using during the last days of this system of things" (JW's-Proclaimers of God's Kingdoms, pg 626) and that the governing body is "the mouthpiece of Jehovah God", does this mean that God changed His mind about this teaching and the definition of "generation"?

Quirky1

You need to go to the Scandals & Coverups section on this site.

Plenty of evidence there.

5 Points to disprove The Truth

Share this