faithful and discreet slave-33AD till 1914?

by erik 10 Replies latest jw friends

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  erik

  Hello everyone. Recently, I have come across a question pertaining to the whereabouts of the faithful and discreet slave between the time of the first century christians and 1914.

  I have heard two separate things.

  1) That there was no break between the time of the first century christians, and that there was in some way a faithful and discreet slave here on earth. Note: WT March 1, 1981, p24

  "Jehovah's Witnesses believe that this parable to the one true congregation of Jesus Christ's anointed followers. Beginning with Pentecost, 33 C.E., and continuing through the 19 centuries since then, this slavelike congregation has been feeding its members spiritually, doing so faithfully and discreetly."

  (Please note this information could be taken out of context, since I have not seen this WT for myself.)

  2)The other definition that I have heard is different. When I asked this question to my brothers wife who has been in the organization for many years, she had a different answer. Her answer wsa the same that I have heard elsewhere from other Witnesses an well. The answer had something to do with the fact that after 607 BCE the king of Jerusalem (Israel), Gods chosen people was taken away, and that until the new king was to come again this being Jesus in the year 1914 or 1919, there would be no slave to dipense the proper food at the proper time. Since Jesus has come in 1914, there is a need to inform people of this fact and so the need for the faithful and discreet slave.

  My information on number 2 is probably off a bit, and it is because of this that I am posting this. If anyone could shed light on this or give me a clearer understanding I would appreciate it. Since the #2 answer has been the information given to me concerning the gap between the first century christians and the early witnesses.

  Thank you...
• 

  cornish

  The time between 607 and 1614 is the time when they believe God had no kindom as such on earth,ie the time when the earthly kingdom of Israel fell,after which the Kingly line ended at their contraversial date 607,untill 1914 when christ kicked satan out of heaven and assumed rule over earth invisibly,although they believe that this is the time when woe began for earth since Satan is on earth knowing he has a short time left,and christ is seen as riding out on the first horse of the appocalpse followed by the other horses,conquering and aiming to complete conquest at Armaggedon.
  But you are right,the official belief is that there was an unbroken line from the Apostles to the modern day in which God always had representatives of a slave class on earth,this is a seperate issue to the kingly throne re establishment,but I anm not supprized that many witnesses are un aware of their own doctorine becuse the Society tries to teach 2 opposite things at the same time
  1. that Christ always had a slave class to dispense food at the proper time from 33 ce to Russel,and russel was just a continuation of that line,they have even had articles to claim that groups such as the Waldaneese wre among these faithful ones,overlooking such minor facts like the Waldaneese were trinitarian.
  and 2. that the world was in spiritual darkness until Russel came along.
• 

  concerned fiance

  So then I am confused. Does the Society believe that there was a FDS from 33 A.D. till 1914 or not? Why then would the Watchtower be the "chosen" FDS if there was already a FDS over these many years, that obviously was not in the form of an organization?

  How is it that so many current witnesses have no idea what some of the doctrinal basis and reasoning is. Although I was never a JW, my fiance, erik, and his family were in it for many years and a few are still in it or have gone back recently. Whenever we ask questions of some doctrine, usually the response is that "we will have to do research and get back to you". But, if this is the backbone of witness doctrine, shouldn't this be something that is studied thoroughly in all those bible studies?

  just a question from someone who is trying to learn and understand all the complexities of the Witness interpretations and the Bible itself.
• 

  Room 215

  Hi Cornish,

  You've hit on an interesting point. It seems the Society can't make up its mind as to whether they should hew to the line that the FDS has been in existence ever since Pentecost as they've sometimes done (they've referred to it as ``the 1900-year-old slave''), or as a latter-day manifestation, its emergence as another feature of the ``sign of the end'' (remember that the phrase comes from Matt: 24, a chapter they apply to the present time since 1914.

  It's remarkable the rank and file doesn't call upon them to reconcile this contradiction, but they're steeped in cognitive dissonance.
• 

  Moxy

  youre getting the slave class prophecy mixed up with the gentile times prophecy. the WT interpretation is that the anointed have always existed in an unbroken line since the apostasy but in a disorganized state according to the wheat and weeds parable. at times, small groups may have come together temporarily, having grasped pieces of the whole truth, but the true organization was not chosen and cleansed with the Truth until 1918-1919. no positive identification is ever made of pre-russel anointed individuals but strong indication is given that people like tyndale, wycliffe, the waldenses, etc were.

  mox
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  concerned fiance

  So then does that mean that the teaching by Watchtower that the period from 33AD till 1914 was in the dark is because of the lack of annointed? Then, that would mean that the FDS did not get chosen until 1918, according to Witnesses, is that right? Then does that mean that God did not appoint a FDS for all those years? Why would God keep so many millions of people in the dark?
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  concerned fiance

  Mox,

  What is the wheat and weeds parable? Do witnesses believe they were "cleansed" in some way with the truth in 1918/9? By the way, how do they get to the 1918/9 number? Why didn't Jesus choose the FDS in 1914 when he first came down, why would he wait for 4-5 years?
• 

  erik

  Does anybody know the answer to this:
  What is the wheat and weeds parable? How does it apply to the issue of the annointed or the FDS?
• 

  Moxy

  quick answers:

  Matthew 13:24-30
  

  24 Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. 27 "The owner's servants came to him and said, `Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?' 28 "`An enemy did this,' he replied. "The servants asked him, `Do you want us to go and pull them up?' 29 "`No,' he answered, `because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.'"

  wheat=anointed
  weeds=false imitation christians, christendom
  harvest=time of the end
  angels=themselves

  the anointed would 'grow' together with false christians during the centuries up until the last days and then be seperated 'shortly' before armageddon.

  As Jesus cleansed the temple in Jerusalem three and a half years after he was anointed with God's spirit to be King, so three and a half years after he received kingly power in the autumn of 1914 he came to the spiritual temple as Jehovah's Messenger and began to cleanse it. So this occurred in the spring of 1918. That marked the beginning of the period of judgment and inspection of his spirit-begotten followers" Let God be True, p. 202.

  1918/19 chronology is based on several scriptures in revelation that i wont go into here.

  mox
• 

  joelbear

  I would be willing to bet that an elder or strong witness would say,

  Well, Jehovah didn't need a large organization from 33 CD to 1914 since that was not the time of the end so there was no preaching work to be done.

  Remember everybody that lived during that period gets a "Get into the New System Free" Card for living and dying in a time that was not "the last days".

  Joel