Where Do JWs Get Their Sense of Legitimacy?

Cold Steel

In reading JW literature over the years and talking to missionaries, I've often read and heard the term "manmade religion" applied to other Christian churches. Yet when I study the history, the church seems to have been built on a publishing company. No revelations or visions, no voices from heaven, no light or glory, no visitations—yet the Jehovah's Witnesses proclaim that they're the only "true" religion. I don't have any problems with them claiming that, nor practicing their beliefs; however, how does one know that one is an apostle of Christ unless...well, unless someone with some authority...umm...up there...tells them?

Catholics and Orthodox Christians claim papal authority. Mormons and Seventh-Day Adventists claim revelations from God. The Worldwide Church of God claimed a prophetic mantle, in which Herbert W. Armstrong was "the Elijah" that Malachi prophecied would come, but what claims can the JWs claim? Wouldn't a publishing company starting a church fit into the category of "man made"?

Thanks!

WTWizard

It's all a scam. There is no sense of legitimacy among the leaders--what they want is the illusion of such. It wouldn't surprise me a bit to find that the leaders at the top are atheists.

The fact is, the truth is best found by stripping the mysticism away from the teaching. Adding more mysticism (altering the Bible, taking scriptures out of context to support a doctrine, making up things to help support your viewpoint, etc.) may add the illusion that you have special revelation or inspiration. The truth is, they do not. The Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger is no more inspired than I am, and I do not claim special inspiration. All anyone has to do is reach the core of morals, and anyone can have all the inspiration they need to live totally without the guidance of the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger.

yknot

Welcome Back!

A year and half is too long... (you do realize we are an anti-Watchtower forum?)

I am surprised you have had trouble finding answers because the wealth of knowledge of googling is astounding.

Answer: Officially Russell proclaimed Jesus Christ guidance from the get-go of his forming the Bible Students and ZWT.

The Bible Students are still active today and you can google them for Pastor Russells publications.

For the Jehovah's Witnesses as the still existent Bible Students proclaim you would have to look at it's true founder Joseph Franklin Rutherford.

His era starts in 1917.

Have you read "The Finished Mystery"? It has a chronology chart followed by the 7 messengers of the church.

Rutherford claimed to receive guidance through angels, and assumed oversight of the supposedly heavenly resurrected Russell...you will have to dig around the late 1920-1930's publications.

The JWs claim that they are God's sole channel, the organization is a prophet, and is 'spirit-directed' even though no one individually within the WTS is 'inspired'. There was a chart back in the Jan 1, 1977 WT that shows the heirarchy of the JWs as follows: Jehovah God, Jesus Christ, FDS class (which is represented on earth by the Governing Body), various committees.....

So do they believe they are 'man-made'....nope but neither does any other religion on the planet.

Cheers

Yknot!

logic

I know one of these days they will probably kick me out, but sometimes I just can't keep my mouth shut. I have brought up several times with my wife, reletives, and elders, where does the society get their authority from the scriptures. It is always the faithfull and discrete slave. My answer has always been that this is not only speculation , but a very weird speculation. I even give them an out with the 1919 thing when Jesus supposedly chose them. In my experiences I can never get a jw to try to explain the reasoning for this ( example in the revelation book with the dates and assemblies etc.) I finally realized that they don't even believe in this crap. For one thing it is so convuluted that no one can explain it without an outline and that doesn't even work because they have changed it so much.

It finally accured to me years ago that the society just say they are gods chosen organization. I challenge any jw to explain with the scriptures their authority. I can't be done.

Awakened at Gilead

Logic:I know one of these days they will probably kick me out, but sometimes I just can't keep my mouth shut.

You sound like me... its one of the arguments that I have mentioned with my family too. Ironicaly, my step-dad is of the "anointed" sop I asked how is he part of the FDS? His answer...he's of the domestics.... so he just eats everything up, lol.

Yep, no proof whatsoever... but all the newbie witnesses must be believing it. Just means that JWD will be growing when they wake up... that's an indication that Jehovah is blessing JWD, right?

A@G

journey-on

They generally point to the three mainstream Christian doctrines that have been rejected by the "true" Christians, JWs: Immortality of the soul, the Trinity, Hell fire

The fact these doctrines are rejected by only JWs and according to them can be proven to be false doctrines, qualifies them as God's only true organization on earth.

As the light has gotten brighter and brighter, they have also rejected pagan holidays and the cross.

LongHairGal

Cold Steel,

I thought this myself and realized they do not have any legitimacy that can be proved. Men made claims and you simply have to take their word for it. It seems every hundred years or so somebody decides to start his own religion.

Every religion you hear about has some sort of 'pipeline to the divine' or 'mysticism' or something otherworldly. Some might call this the 'smoke and mirrors' of a magic act. Because people are superstitious they may be afraid or intimidated into following somebody who makes such claims and this is how people become enslaved to a belief - because of fear of the divine. Never mind that the person making such claims has no real connection to the divine and it doesn't matter whether the person is sincerely deceived or just a plain scam artist. Sadly, it is just enough that some gullible people believe it.

The early Catholics had their miracles and relics of saints, etc. Other religions have their special 'prophet' or somebody who had a 'divine revelation' of some sort. The JWs have their 'governing body' and 'anointed'. I might mention the second two things cannot be proven and you just have to take their word for it. At least in the early days you could see a miracle being performed. Too bad we don't have miracles nowadays.

A religion has to have this 'pipeline to the divine' as an enticement or else it is just another club.

LHG

journey-on

Too bad we don't have miracles nowadays.

What about the Virgin Mary in the grilled cheese sandwich? That doesn't qualify?

Cold Steel

Yeah, I know this board is anti, but since I've never had a straight answer from a missionary, I thought I'd ask.

What is the church like now? I've never much cared for the word "slave" that's thrown around and I don't see as many Witnesses as I once did. Has the church suffered a meltdown over the last few years? I would think a church being perpetually wrong would tend to wear members a bit thin. I had two guys visit me in the late 70s (one black, the other white). I wasn't buying their story, but still they came. As we got to know each other, I asked them one time when they thought the "end" would be. Neither offered any dates, but one confided in me that he was so sure it was near that he pulled out of his company's pension plan and cashed in his contributions. It was a bad decision I thouight at the time. I've often wondered what became of both of them. One day they just stopped coming.

I had some relatives who were JWs, and as their health declined, two things happened. They became more religious and also, it was very apparent that they feared death. My family very strongly believes bodies have spirits, and we're not afraid of death. I think the soul-sleeping doctrine scares a lot of people, even though they don't admit it. (When my grandfather got close to death, he said he began seeing family members who had long ago passed on. When he could no longer speak, he would just point to the foot of his bed and up a little. He seemed frustrated that we couldn't see anything.)

Anyway, how long can a church keep its people on edge for the end of the world, when it doesn't seem to happen?

AuldSoul

First off: Welcome, Cold Steel!

Anyway, how long can a church keep its people on edge for the end of the world, when it doesn't seem to happen?

According to Zion's Watchtower and Herald of Christ's Presence, January 15, 1892, they were claiming divine revelations and were saying, "Thus saith the Lord!" This same issue indicates that the church can keep people in expectation of the end of the world ever since the publishing of Millennial Dawn.

(See the thread Dispelling Myths: 1914 Expectations)

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

Where Do JWs Get Their Sense of Legitimacy?

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