Do people really change?

Anti-Christ

I was talking about this with some friends yesterday, I believe that we do not change, we might change the way we see the world around us, we might change our belief, we will learn new things that will make us change our outlook on life but when it comes down to it I think we are who we are. My friends say that we do change, that we are never the same person year after year, I was the only one who did not agree. I told them that I have seen people "change" but deep down there were the same person, all they change was their "mask". One of my friends said to me that his travels change him, I told him that he his the same person now has he was when I first met him, he said "no, I am really different" I said to him that he change his way of seeing the world but when I am around him I still "recognize" him, he is basically the same.

The point I am trying to make is this, we all have different potential, events in our life will affect us differently from one person to the other but in the end we will react to these events according to who we are so we do not really change we just add or subtract to who we are. It's not easy for me to explain but I would like to have some comments.

WTWizard

People can and do change. However, most people's basic personality will remain fixed at a relatively early age. Those who are tyrants will remain tyrants, and those who are gullible will always tend to be gullible. And no washtowels or asleeps are going to change people that are going to try to mold the information therein to fit their personalities.

However, the way people change is by making decisions. Once they realize the adverse effects of their stupid ones, they are more likely to learn and make better ones next time. The good decisions they make are apt to be improved on, so they make even better ones later. In that way, people can and do change. This doesn't happen, however, when someone initiates the use of force, threat of force, or fraud to get a person to change.

Anti-Christ

However, the way people change is by making decisions. Once they realize the adverse effects of their stupid ones, they are more likely to learn and make better ones next time. The good decisions they make are apt to be improved on, so they make even better ones later. In that way, people can and do change.

I get what your saying but this I thinks is not change but more part of the learning process of life, it's part of our personalities and some people don't even learn, they keep making the same mistakes because that's who they are. It's like my cats, the female learns really fast the male enjoys pissing me off. It's pat of who he his.

Gopher

AC, you hit on something when you said SOME people never learn from their mistakes. However, some others do.

I think we have to define what is "change", and how high to set the bar. Is it the simplest dictionary definition "to become different", or does it involve a complete transformation? If we can define change as improvement, and can accept that it can be an evolution rather than a revolution, than some people do change.

I grew up JW and was very much compliant and aimless in life. I couldn't say "no" to anyone. However I was judgmental as a JW could be. Now I'm now such a pushover, have certain goals, and am much more open-minded than I was a decade ago as a JW.

I acknowledge I have some of the same personality traits as before (like a bad sense of humor and a helpful attitude). But would you argue I haven't changed?

Carlos_Helms

I agree with WTW...and I've seen "the change" in others and - to a degree - in myself. More than just an adaptation to environmental stressors (learning to go along to get along), there are - by means of outside influence - changes that can occur to the essential personality. The real test is in how one responds to adversity or some other experience which takes him or her outside daily routine - where he has no "rote" to depend upon. Carlos

AGuest

May you have peace!

You are correct: people do not change. True, they change their habits, their behavior, their outlook, their perspective, their goals, their likes, their dislikes, etc. Usually, if one is a grouchy old fart, one was a relatively grouchy young fart. But this is outlook, which can change. One can CHOOSE to leave off pessimism and take on optimism.

But that does not change who they are because the very essence of their being... does not change. They are still "grouchy" - they're just CHOOSING not to manifest it.

Thus, where one person will say, "He's 'different' than when I knew him," another will say, "Nah, he's just the same." Who's right? The person who perceives him as "different" possibly only knew one side or facet of the person in question. Unless you are the Christ (John 2:25), it is virtually impossible to truly know a person unless you live with him/her for some amount of time. Even then, the person you "know" may not be the person they truly are as very few of us exist without some level of deceit IN us... which deceit we manifest to others in various ways. (John 1:47, 48)However, even those without deceit are hard to know... because, again, our knowledge of them is as we perceive them (i.e., that they are "just like" us, so who do they think they are)... and not as they truly are.

I bid you peace.

A slave of Christ,

SA

Anti-Christ

I think we have to define what is "change", and how high to set the bar. Is it the simplest dictionary definition "to become different", or does it involve a complete transformation? If we can define change as improvement, and can accept that it can be an evolution rather than a revolution, than some people do change.
I grew up JW and was very much compliant and aimless in life. I couldn't say "no" to anyone. However I was judgmental as a JW could be. Now I'm now such a pushover, have certain goals, and am much more open-minded than I was a decade ago as a JW.
I acknowledge I have some of the same personality traits as before (like a bad sense of humor and a helpful attitude). But would you argue I haven't changed?

I think it is the definition of change, you said that you have changed and I know that I have "change" since I left the JWs but I think that all of us here would not have left if it our personalities would be different, yes outside factors can influence the way we act but is that really who we are? For something or some one to evolve that potential for evolving most be there, so in a sense that person is only becoming what he or she is already "determined" to be but if the event that creates the change does not occur then the need to evolve does not happen but the potential is still there, any way I guess I just think to much.

wings

The point I am trying to make is this, we all have different potential, events in our life will affect us differently from one person to the other but in the end we will react to these events according to who we are so we do not really change we just add or subtract to who we are.

I would equate change with growth. We do change or we don't grow. While the essence of who we are may remain the same, I've seen to many people I thought I knew totally disappear. The essence can change too, sometimes that is good, sometimes not.

Hortensia

a friend of mine says you can't change who you are but you can learn to limit the damage you do.

Anti-Christ

I would equate change with growth. We do change or we don't grow. While the essence of who we are may remain the same, I've seen to many people I thought I knew totally disappear. The essence can change too, sometimes that is good, sometimes not.

I guess I have not lived long enough to have seen this in people I know.

a friend of mine says you can't change who you are but you can learn to limit the damage you do.

Funny.

You are correct: people do not change. True, they change their habits, their behavior, their outlook, their perspective, their goals, their likes, their dislikes, etc. Usually, if one is a grouchy old fart, one was a relatively grouchy young fart. But this is outlook, which can change. One can CHOOSE to leave off pessimism and take on optimism.
But that does not change who they are because the very essence of their being... does not change. They are still "grouchy" - they're just CHOOSING not to manifest it.

That's what I'm asking myself, I have seen a lot of people go back to the JW and totally "change" but when I would talk to them and ask them the right questions I could see that it was all for show and they were trying to become something they were not but then again that is not healthy or "normal" behaviour so I can not really use this as a measure. I feel that I have learned so much and that I still have a lot to learn but I am still me, I just am discovering my potential.

Do people really change?

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