pro-witness website

by besty 19 Replies latest watchtower bible

Bring_the_Light

Mos
t reputable charities don't restrict access to their content - rather they encourage it.
YahooGroups has an email Listserve component to it. I'm guessing they screen every email that gets sent to the ListServe (before it goes to the group). They keep the option to boot so they can reduce the amount of Apostate spam. They also probably don't want to be referenced on sites like this one, just to avoid association with the enemy. This is probably the only reason they canned the account when someone posted the username and password here.
besty

See Lifton's Number One Criteria for Thought Reform (Cults to you and me)
1. MILIEU CONTROL

the most basic feature is the control of human communication within and environment if the control is extremely intense, it becomes internalized control -- an attempt to manage an individual's inner communication control over all a person sees, hears, reads, writes (information control) creates conflicts in respect to individual autonomy groups express this in several ways: Group process, isolation from other people, psychological pressure, geographical distance or unavailable transportation, sometimes physical pressure often a sequence of events, such as seminars, lectures, group encounters, which become increasingly intense and increasingly isolated, making it extremely difficult-- both physically and psychologically--for one to leave. sets up a sense of antagonism with the outside world; it's us against them closely connected to the process of individual change (of personality)
inkling

It is the place to get fair and balanced information
...Just like Fox News
[ink]
anasazi

[quote]>It is the place to get fair and balanced information by, for and about Jehovah's Witnesses.

I don't fully agree that the best source of fair and balanced information on a high control controversial religious cult is from their own teachings. It would certainly form part of an exhaustive study, but to call it 'the place' is inaccurate IMHO.
[/quote]

First, Jehovah's Witnesses is not a high control or controversial religious cult. If that were the case I would know it.

Secondly, people on this forum form their opinions by what happens to a handful of people and this that happens is not in line with the teachings of the religion.

And have you listened to all of the audio and read all of the messages. Until you have, then your opinion means squat.

[quote]
>It is an official site of Jehovah's Witnesses. Afterall, what is more official than
>the meetings and assemblies themselves?

No it's not. From www.watchtower.org "This is the authoritative Web site about the beliefs, teachings, and activities of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. is a legal organization in use by Jehovah’s Witnesses."
[/quote]

The Watchtower Society put that on there back in 1996. But as it says, it is the legal instrument used by JWs.
Since watchtower.org is the legal site, it does not contain teaching beyond what is printed.

And why would you quote the watchtower.org anyway since you don't seem to believe in it? Who is calling whom high control here?

[quote]
>The requirement of the user and password is for people to respect the provisions.

Seems a strange way for a not-for-profit religious publishing house to behave given there is no incremental cost or loss of revenue associated with making this information widely available. Most reputable charities don't restrict access to their content - rather they encourage it.
[/quote]

"not-for-profit religious publishing house". Huh? Where did you get that from? It is a for-profit printing house that puts that on. And the access is not restricted and it is encouraged. You need to remember that there are working people with JOBS behind that and it takes alot of time. The objective is not just to download but it is to participate in the group and learn from the others.
Awakened at Gilead

From Anasazi's profile:
All other religions leave alot to be desired because they are so disunited. Because of the unity of Jehovah's people, I like them. I however, hate apostates and opposers. They have wicked hearts in that they dispise spiritual things.
Seems like you don't like, in fact you hate most of the people on this website, sir. You make a blanket statement about us that we have wicked hearts" and "despise spiritual things".
I respectfully disagree. And I am one who can say from personal experience that JWs are a cult.
You say in your post:
First, Jehovah's Witnesses is not a high control or controversial religious cult. If that were the case I would know it.
Why would you know it? Are you an authority on cults and mind control?
One feature of mind control cults is that they do not let current members speak to former members. I think that most of the people on this board, as ex-members, have suffered from this.
Another feature that mind control cults have in common is that they restrict access to information. Have you read the km9-07????
Seems like you should do some more research on vult mind control before defending the JWs.
A@G
Bring_the_Light

Secondly, people on this forum form their opinions by what happens to a handful of people and this that happens is not in line with the teachings of the religion.
Which teachings of the religion? pre-1900, 1900-1925, 1925-1975, 1975-2000 or 2000-2008? The teachings of Rusell, Rutherford, or one of the governing bodies after a governing body was first in control in the latter half of the 20th century?
Perhaps you enjoy Pyramidology? What are YOUR crimes? huh? What are YOUR crimes? (oops, mixed up with Scientology for a moment, easy to do, cults are so similiar)
The people on this forum formed their opinions based on what happened TO US.
besty

Anasazi
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post - it's always good to see Jehovah's people defending their faith - I wish more of them were on here, but unlikely given the WTS ban on viewing sites such as these. Perhaps you may wish to start a new thread called "Why the WTS ban on visiting apostate discussion boards doesn't apply to me." I'd love to hear your reasoning on that subject.
Anyway let me try and address the points you are trying to make.
First, Jehovah's Witnesses is not a high control or controversial religious cult. If that were the case I would know it
The WTS is a high control group. They offer advice, suggestions and diktats on matters such as what to wear whilst at worship, what to wear in your leisure time, how to educate your children, what employment is suitable, what to do on vacation, how to plan your time for preaching activity, sexual practices in the marriage, what internet sites you can and cannot view, your choice of reading material - the list goes on and on and on. Compared to other Christian faiths in the mainstream, the WTS attempts a high degree of control under the guise of restoring pure Christian worship. This may have carried some weight were it not for the constantly changing standards and the tenuous link between how the Supreme Being Creator of the Entire Universe feels about whether I wear a tie to the meeting (or not).
Is the JW movement a cult? I beg you to educate yourself with some impartial reading material - Steve Hassan has written a couple of excellent books on the subject and is recognised as being a subject matter expert. Additionally the research work done by people such as Leon Festinger and Lifton has been enlightening people for over 50 years - this is not new information. The WTS fit Lifton's eight criteria for a thought reform group to a greater or lesser degree in each case - there is no shortage of information available on this subject - please don't tell me they are not a cult, "otherwise you would know". I find that argument demeaning to my intellect, insulting and spurious. Incidentally I love the way you used the 'appeal to authority' fallacy - in this case your own authority, without a hint of irony.
Secondly, people on this forum form their opinions by what happens to a handful of people and this that happens is not in line with the teachings of the religion.
I congratulate you on having the temerity (and disrespect) to assume to speak for the entire community of posters and viewers here on JWD. Last figure I heard was something in the order of 16,000 unique visitors per day. Hardly a handful, and in any case it matters not whether what happens is according to the teachings of the WTS - Jesus explained that by their fruits you shall know them. There is much bad fruitage exposed on this board, but you would belittle and humiliate the child abuse victims and deny the parents that have lost children to the blood fraction policy? Incidentally nice use of 'generalization' fallacy - its not often one sees an entire discussion forum community labelled so neatly.
And have you listened to all of the audio and read all of the messages. Until you have, then your opinion means squat.
36 District Conventions, 72 Circuit Assemblies and 7500 hours of assorted meetings enables me not to have to listen to any more WTS 'information'. If there is any specific WTS teaching that you would like the official 'truth' position on I'd be happy to help. Of course give me a clue by telling me what year you would like to know the 'present truth' for, as most things have changed over the years. But thanks for dismissing my opinion in such a Christ-like manner. "Come to me you who are loaded down....but your opinion means squat..." not quite the way the Bible captures Jesus sentiments. Incidentally nice use of classic ad hominem technique.
And why would you quote the watchtower.org anyway since you don't seem to believe in it?
Not really worth arguing this point - we all know that jwproclaimers.org is not the official site of the WTS and further to that, is not 'endorsed' see Sep 2007 KM for further details on why it is not 'endorsed'. In answer to your question I quoted the official website to address your false claim that jwproclaimers.org was in some way officially approved. Do you not see that the WTS edict banning jwproclaimers.org et al is yet another example of a high control group practicing information control? Incidentally nice use of 'red herring' fallacy - my belief, or otherwise, in WTS teachings is not really the issue here.
"not-for-profit religious publishing house". Huh? Where did you get that from? It is a for-profit printing house that puts that on. And the access is not restricted and it is encouraged. You need to remember that there are working people with JOBS behind that and it takes alot of time. The objective is not just to download but it is to participate in the group and learn from the others.
My apologies - I didn't understand that it was a money making enterprise. All the best with that business model - please send the owners my best wishes for profitable expansion. Thanks for the reminder that Internet users may also have jobs - I had no idea. Likewise I hope you don't just 'download' onto JWD but take the next step, and learn from the others.
I notice from your profile you have studied original bible languages - my congratulations on your ongoing efforts to master English as a foreign language :-)
Looking forward to your rebuttal - don't let me down :-)
Best regards
Paul Morrison
PS - Yes, Paul Morrison is my real name - I don't have to hide behind an anonymous username because I'm not in a high control cult.
besty

come on anasazi - don't give up now :-) all the lurking JW's on here are dying to hear your counterblast....
anasazi

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post - it's always good to see Jehovah's people defending their faith - I wish more of them were on here, but unlikely given the WTS ban on viewing sites such as these. Perhaps you may wish to start a new thread called "Why the WTS ban on visiting apostate discussion boards doesn't apply to me." I'd love to hear your reasoning on that subject. I don't know of any WTS ban on viewing sites like this one. JWs, however know that there are rude people here. And as Obi Wan said "JWD forum: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." The WTS does not have authority to ban anything. The WTS is a printing company. The governing body does not have the authority to ban anything and they have not because as the Bible says, that the apostles are not masters of our faith. Thus how can anyone else be. Anyway let me try and address the points you are trying to make. First, Jehovah's Witnesses is not a high control or controversial religious cult. If that were the case I would know it The WTS is a high control group. They offer advice, suggestions and diktats on matters such as what to wear whilst at worship, what to wear in your leisure time, how to educate your children, what employment is suitable, what to do on vacation, how to plan your time for preaching activity, sexual practices in the marriage, what internet sites you can and cannot view, your choice of reading material - the list goes on and on and on. Compared to other Christian faiths in the mainstream, the WTS attempts a high degree of control under the guise of restoring pure Christian worship. This may have carried some weight were it not for the constantly changing standards and the tenuous link between how the Supreme Being Creator of the Entire Universe feels about whether I wear a tie to the meeting (or not). You are so wrong. The WTS does nothing of the sort. The governing body through the teaching committee has taught that we ought to give God glory. Thus what we wear is concerning that end. As far was the rest, you are so full of youself. Get a dose of reality. And compared to other religions? Other religions do not focus on God and giving him glory. Is the JW movement a cult? I beg you to educate yourself with some impartial reading material - Steve Hassan has written a couple of excellent books on the subject and is recognised as being a subject matter expert. I don't give a rip about how you or anyone defines a cult. I congratulate you on having the temerity (and disrespect) to assume to speak for the entire community of posters and viewers here on JWD. Last figure I heard was something in the order of 16,000 unique visitors per day. Hardly a handful, and in any case it matters not whether what happens is according to the teachings of the WTS - Jesus explained that by their fruits you shall know them. Yes, and all of the ones that I see here have wicked and evil fruitage. And it does not matter how many are here. What matters is that the ones here are not ones anyone would call friends. There is much bad fruitage exposed on this board, but you would belittle and humiliate the child abuse victims and deny the parents that have lost children to the blood fraction policy? I state that it is not a religious issue. And no one was lost to the blood fraction policy since it is a matter of conscience. Incidentally nice use of 'generalization' fallacy - its not often one sees an entire discussion forum community labelled so neatly. If the shoe fits. And have you listened to all of the audio and read all of the messages. Until you have, then your opinion means squat. 36 District Conventions, 72 Circuit Assemblies and 7500 hours of assorted meetings enables me not to have to listen to any more WTS 'information'. Well, since I don't have any WTS information, I don't have a reference point for you. And your statement is meaningless until you come forward with a reference point. If there is any specific WTS teaching that you would like the official 'truth' position on I'd be happy to help. Of course give me a clue by telling me what year you would like to know the 'present truth' for, as most things have changed over the years. But thanks for dismissing my opinion in such a Christ-like manner. "Come to me you who are loaded down....but your opinion means squat..." not quite the way the Bible captures Jesus sentiments. Incidentally nice use of classic ad hominem technique. I have no idea what WTS teachings are. As I said, I listen to talks by Jehovah's Witnesses. Only a minority work at the Watchtower Society. And why would you quote the watchtower.org anyway since you don't seem to believe in it? Not really worth arguing this point - we all know that jwproclaimers.org is not the official site of the WTS and further to that, is not 'endorsed' see Sep 2007 KM for further details on why it is not 'endorsed'. I didn't say that jwproclaimers.org is an official site of the WTS. I said it is an official site of Jehovah's Witnesses. There is no WTS audio or video on there. But then you don't bother to read things do you? And it does not matter what the governing body endorses either. What that was saying was for people not to ask them but it is up to the people. But then you don't know what endorsing means. In answer to your question I quoted the official website to address your false claim that jwproclaimers.org was in some way officially approved. Do you not see that the WTS edict banning jwproclaimers.org et al is yet another example of a high control group practicing information control? Incidentally nice use of 'red herring' fallacy - my belief, or otherwise, in WTS teachings is not really the issue here. There is not WTS ban. And I didn't say that it was officially approved. I said it is an official site of Jehovah's Witnesses because what is more official than the meetings and assemblies. Looking forward to your rebuttal - don't let me down :-) Now that American Idol is done, I have more time. See, there is no ban on TV. But these forums I do not like. They are advertising laden and email is better. Best regards Paul Morrison PS - Yes, Paul Morrison is my real name - I don't have to hide behind an anonymous username because I'm not in a high control cult. I don't hide behind a screenname because of a religion. I hide behind one because you people are dangerous. When someone on here said that he drove by my business and house and wrote with ill intent, that classified him as a stalker. Maybe he was after my children. So you people are dangerous. A rational dialogue is not sufficient for you all.
anasazi

<quote>
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post - it's always good to see Jehovah's people defending their faith - I wish more of them were on here, but unlikely given the WTS ban on viewing sites such as these. Perhaps you may wish to start a new thread called "Why the WTS ban on visiting apostate discussion boards doesn't apply to me." I'd love to hear your reasoning on that subject.
</quote>

I don't know of any WTS ban on viewing sites like this one. JWs, however know that there are rude people here.
And as Obi Wan said "JWD forum: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious."

The WTS does not have authority to ban anything. The WTS is a printing company. The governing body does not have the authority to ban anything and they have not because as the Bible says, that the apostles are not masters of our faith. Thus how can anyone else be.

<quote><quote>
Anyway let me try and address the points you are trying to make.
First, Jehovah's Witnesses is not a high control or controversial religious cult. If that were the case I would know it
</quote>
The WTS is a high control group. They offer advice, suggestions and diktats on matters such as what to wear whilst at worship, what to wear in your leisure time, how to educate your children, what employment is suitable, what to do on vacation, how to plan your time for preaching activity, sexual practices in the marriage, what internet sites you can and cannot view, your choice of reading material - the list goes on and on and on. Compared to other Christian faiths in the mainstream, the WTS attempts a high degree of control under the guise of restoring pure Christian worship. This may have carried some weight were it not for the constantly changing standards and the tenuous link between how the Supreme Being Creator of the Entire Universe feels about whether I wear a tie to the meeting (or not).
</quote>

You are so wrong.

The WTS does nothing of the sort. The governing body through the teaching committee has taught that we ought to give
God glory. Thus what we wear is concerning that end.

As far was the rest, you are so full of youself. Get a dose of reality.

And compared to other religions? Other religions do not focus on God and giving him glory.

<quote>
Is the JW movement a cult? I beg you to educate yourself with some impartial reading material - Steve Hassan has written a couple of excellent books on the subject and is recognised as being a subject matter expert.
</quote>

I don't give a rip about how you or anyone defines a cult.

<quote>
I congratulate you on having the temerity (and disrespect) to assume to speak for the entire community of posters and viewers here on JWD. Last figure I heard was something in the order of 16,000 unique visitors per day. Hardly a handful, and in any case it matters not whether what happens is according to the teachings of the WTS - Jesus explained that by their fruits you shall know them.
</quote>

Yes, and all of the ones that I see here have wicked and evil fruitage.

And it does not matter how many are here. What matters is that the ones here are not
ones anyone would call friends.

<quote>
There is much bad fruitage exposed on this board, but you would belittle and humiliate the child abuse victims and deny the parents that have lost children to the blood fraction policy?
</quote>

I state that it is not a religious issue.

And no one was lost to the blood fraction policy since it is a matter of conscience.

<quote>
Incidentally nice use of 'generalization' fallacy - its not often one sees an entire discussion forum community labelled so neatly.
</quote>

If the shoe fits.

<quote><quote>
And have you listened to all of the audio and read all of the messages. Until you have, then your opinion means squat.
</quote>

36 District Conventions, 72 Circuit Assemblies and 7500 hours of assorted meetings enables me not to have to listen to any more WTS 'information'.

</quote>

Well, since I don't have any WTS information, I don't have a reference point for you.

And your statement is meaningless until you come forward with a reference point.

<quote>
If there is any specific WTS teaching that you would like the official 'truth' position on I'd be happy to help. Of course give me a clue by telling me what year you would like to know the 'present truth' for, as most things have changed over the years. But thanks for dismissing my opinion in such a Christ-like manner. "Come to me you who are loaded down....but your opinion means squat..." not quite the way the Bible captures Jesus sentiments. Incidentally nice use of classic ad hominem technique.
</quote>

I have no idea what WTS teachings are. As I said, I listen to talks by Jehovah's Witnesses.
Only a minority work at the Watchtower Society.

<quote><quote>
And why would you quote the watchtower.org anyway since you don't seem to believe in it?
</quote>

Not really worth arguing this point - we all know that jwproclaimers.org is not the official site of the WTS and further to that, is not 'endorsed' see Sep 2007 KM for further details on why it is not 'endorsed'.
</quote>

I didn't say that jwproclaimers.org is an official site of the WTS. I said it is an official
site of Jehovah's Witnesses. There is no WTS audio or video on there. But then you don't bother
to read things do you?

And it does not matter what the governing body endorses either. What that was saying was for
people not to ask them but it is up to the people. But then you don't know what endorsing means.

<quote>
In answer to your question I quoted the official website to address your false claim that jwproclaimers.org was in some way officially approved. Do you not see that the WTS edict banning jwproclaimers.org et al is yet another example of a high control group practicing information control? Incidentally nice use of 'red herring' fallacy - my belief, or otherwise, in WTS teachings is not really the issue here.
</quote>

There is not WTS ban.

And I didn't say that it was officially approved.
I said it is an official site of Jehovah's Witnesses because what is more official than
the meetings and assemblies.

<quote>
Looking forward to your rebuttal - don't let me down :-)

</quote>

Now that American Idol is done, I have more time. See, there is no ban on TV.
But these forums I do not like. They are advertising laden and email is better.

<quote>
Best regards

Paul Morrison

PS - Yes, Paul Morrison is my real name - I don't have to hide behind an anonymous username because I'm not in a high control cult.</quote>

I don't hide behind a screenname because of a religion. I hide behind one because you people are dangerous. When someone on here said that he drove by my business and house and wrote with ill intent, that classified him as a stalker. Maybe he was after my children. So you people are dangerous. A rational dialogue is not sufficient for you all.

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