EUROPEAN JW VERSUS USA JW

by beroea 13 Replies latest jw friends

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  beroea

  European JW versus USA JW

  This board is very dominant by experience from US about the JW lives. We are only a few from others parts of the world participate. I live in northern part of Europe. Sometimes reading your experience from USA I appreciate not living there. Don’t misunderstand that opinion. I think USA as a country is great, but the USA JW community isn’t so.

  I think the freedom in Europe is higher and more tolerant. We have our problems as well and the whole structure of power and anything about the chronology and the GB is of course the same. But daily lives in the congregation seams to be another world.

  Let me give you some examples: We have women wearing pants at the meetings and in public preaching works and no one cares. We have elder doing mounting climbing and participate in sport competitions. We have a lot of young people taking university educations – all very normal.
  We have elder going on 3-month holydays away from the congregations and continue to be elder when he comes back. I could mention more.

  What’s your experience? Are the above mention examples acceptable in USA? Do others from Europe or other area of the world outside USA have similar experience?

  Beroea
  A voice from Europe
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  alliwannadoislive

  hey beroea !

  others of us europeans have a different understanding of the phrase 'women wearing pants' - to the americans, i guess they understand exactly what you are referring to

  however, us brits think and use our language differently - if our women don't wear pants, then they are 'going commando' ...
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  Thirdson

  Beroea,

  You make some good points about the dominance of US views on this board. However, since the US has the most JWs of any nation it will also have the largest amount of ex-JWs.

  US views and norms pervade the writings of the Watchtower. Many ideas about beards, as an example are a US based opinion (and outdated) as to what is suitable grooming for men. These opinions easily influence other western and more so English speaking countries because of a similar cultural history. I doubt rules about wearing a suit jacket when giving talks holds much weight in poorer countries where a) brothers don't own suit jackets and b) a simple open frame kingdom hall structure without air-conditioning makes wearing suits impossible or even laughable.

  Climate variations will effect dress and I guess sisters in Alaska have a different dress code to their counterparts in Florida. Nothern Europe has different dress standards and a different culture to the American society that influences the Watchtower.

  I used to vacation in Mediterranean resorts. Topless bathing on beaches is the norm and I used to wonder if JW girls regularly followed the custom. I knew JW girls from my UK congregation who used to bathe topless but I don't think that was the norm...unless anyone else wants to share.

  Other than that I have found most UK JWs to be pretty conservative but not quite as much as their US friends.

  Thirdson

  'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
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  peterstride

  Well, when I was over in Italy and Greece and went to meetings there, ALL women were in long skirts or dresses. Even going out on the town, most of them wore skirts and dresses...pants were frowned upon by the older generation (their parents). But, whenever they could, the women would sneak out wearing pants.

  It comes down to regional norms, and almost nothing to do with what the WTS says...even though some gun-ho elders in specific congregations may try to enforce what the WTS says.

  Just my two cents worth,

  Peter Stride
  Toronto, Canada
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  beroea

  I think the South of Europe is a lot more conservative than the Northern part - where I live. It’s mainly down to the cultural fact that the northern part of Europe is dominant by the protestant way of thinking. The south is catholic and dominates of more conservatism but that will change in the near future.

  That's also the reason why the north Europe (maybe excepts UK) is more anti-authority than others. We don’t like authorities telling us what to do and think.

  beroea
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  roybatty

  I agree with your comments about US JWs vs European JWs. I was born and raised in the US but my parents are from the Netherlands so I spent many summer vacations in western Europe. I was amazed at what the Dutch JWs were allowed to do. For example, seeing an "R" rated movie here in the States, such as Braveheart, was a big no-no. If one made it a habit, it would lead to removal of any priviledges. But it seemed that every JW I met in Holland had seen it. And you're also right about college. I took a LOT of grief for going whereas my Dutch JW friends all went and looked confused when I told them that I was getting a lot of nasty remarks from JWs back home.
  European JWs have it easier I think because the Society saw a long time ago the numbers declining so they are given more elbow room in order to stop the bleeding.
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  hillary_step

  Beroea,

  I think the South of Europe is a lot more conservative than the Northern part - where I live. It’s mainly down to the cultural fact that the northern part of Europe is dominant by the protestant way of thinking. The south is catholic and dominates of more conservatism but that will change in the near future.

  A good post Mountain Man and a very astute observation. I have had opportunity of the past three decades to compare European/US attitudes and agree that there is often a vast difference in the way 'theocracy' is applied.

  Just a very small example, but one of the most irritating:

  Sweden has elders with beards, as do Holland, Ireland, the UK, Canada, New Zealand, many African lands, France etc. I have heard of very few, if any elders in the US who carry beards, and would be interested if any posters know of any.

  When a MS Training school photograph was published in the WT a few years ago, a Swedish JW was apparently shown with a beard in the Swedish edition, but this was retouched to make him beardless for the rest of the world!

  Remember the Russian soldiers who were made to spray the leaves of the trees a brighter shade of green than the natural shade for their propaganda films!

  HS
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  TheOldHippie

  There still is a "common European link" in spite of these North-South differences; I remember seeing some young Spanish sisters dressed VERY grey and decent going from door to door, and here I was halting my car, in my shorts and The Doors' T-shirt and my four-days old beard being on vacation, and we got along extremely well over a lunch to which I invited them.
  To me, there is so much "interest" from the US posters as to what has this or that GB member said or done, or DO, or CO - I don't think many care about them here. I have a feeling from reading the postings, that in general we are more individuals and not so tuned into what Brooklyn people say or think or feel.
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  Abaddon

  Well, I know of one guy in the UK who had to shave his beard to become an Elder, but that was more a nazi CO (anyone remember Doug Maltby, I think that was his name? What a dick!) than UK Dubness.

  I think that the US is stricter, and the comments about North Europe vs. South Europe are true, although I have to take exception at any idea that the UK are not anti-authority; only Australian's take government and regulations less seriously in my experience.

  I am British, but live in Holland, and in this part of North Europe, pedestrians wait when the pedestrian signal is red even if there is no traffic in sight, and on pedestrianised shopping street, people tend keep to the right, whereas in England people will just walk across the road if there are no cars, and a pedestrian precinct with two solid flows of humanity keeping to the right is almost funny it's so weird looking.

  But, I left in '93, and am quite prepared to except that somethings are better; all my nephews have been to University, bar one who is going to work in Italy, and that's WORK, not (god's) work. However, as you still have to believe a load of bollocks and shun people who dissent it's not my idea of freedom.

  People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...
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  hillary_step

  Abbadon,

  Well, I know of one guy in the UK who had to shave his beard to become an Elder, but that was more a nazi CO (anyone remember Doug Maltby, I think that was his name? What a dick!) than UK Dubness.

  Lol. Yes, that would be Tom Maltby, rotund Yorkshireman with an unfailing belief that when Christ said he would send a 'helper' for his disciples, he actually meant him.

  I think it was he who originally made the statement, to be imagined in heavy Yorkshire brogue, 'Brothers, ( long pause ), if you can't serve God out of love, serve him out of ( long pause ) FEAR', heavy emphasis on last word.

  Best regards - HS