CREATIONIST TEACHERS

by badboy 53 Replies latest jw friends

funkyderek

yknot:
I have an AS in biology.
I'm not sure what an "AS" is. It can't be a very useful qualification as clearly you know very little about biology. That's the real problem with the American education system, that someone can get a qualification in a subject without knowing anything useful about it.
I acknowledged microevolution but not macroevolution.
The distinction is a meaningless one invented by creationists.
If you feel differently, as a parent you can choose to instill a preference for the macroevolution theory.
But as a teacher you have a responsibility to teach the facts, and those include evolution - including what you call "macroevolution".
Either way each side feels it has 'proof' but alas all is theory
That's not at all true. Evolution is a fact whether you believe it or not. Creationism is not "the other side" in any sort of scientific debate; it's a religious belief held by some in spite of all the evidence.
jaguarbass

I work in a jail. A juvenile detention facility. Youths under 21.
Yesterday we had a riot. Youths from Clearwater started fighting youths from St. Petersburgh.
Things were out of control for 5 minutes.
This morning I asked one of the youths why he attacked the other youths. He didnt know why, other then they were from a neighboring city.
These kids are in jail behaving like animals.
2 possible reasons. They were raised by animals who were too animalistic to tell them how to think and behave.
Or they were given life by animals who didnt even stay around to raise them. So they have no idea what to think or how to act.
I dont know whether we evolved or were created. And I'm not going to blame youths behaving like wild animals exclusively on atheistim.
When I was growing up. I behaved in a civilized fashion not because of the fear of god but because of the fear of my parents. I knew my father would give me a beating if I acted like an animal.
I also believed that If I killed someone, that the powers that be would kill me. I knew about the electric chair and the gas chamber.
Why did I have parents that instructed me? Probalby because of religion and fear of God.
My parents probalby married and stayed together because of religion and fear of God. Not that my parents were religious. But the culture enviroment that they grew up in was.
Most likely I had a father and mother and guidance and instruction because of religion and fear of God.
The youth I take care of in Juvenile detention 90% of them come from broken homes. 1 parent or no parent.
Why are the homes broken or the parent not even around?
No fear of God. NO religion.
Whether we evolved or not whether there is a God or not.
I think there is an argument to be made that relgion and fear of God is the fabric that keeps society together and enables it to function in a civilized manner.
And maybe all of the above is why the sky God cares where we put our peters and who we have sex with.
God is good orderly direction. Amongst other things.
I know religion has given us cretins like George Bush and family and has given us more wars than atheism could ever dream up.
But there is something about religion and fear of God on the local level to be considered.
With atheism anything goes.
With religion there are rules.
Maybe the people who are smart enough to be atheist need to figure out a way to keep the cretins in church so they can be managed.
Which has probably already been done, thats how we got the bible and religion.
Atheism should be a private club that one has to earn the right to join. A club that doesnt solicit members. But one only finds by searching for the truth.
If an atheist is not rich but working class living amongst the masses. For his own safety and welfare he might want to advocate religion and God.
My argument makes sense to me until I think of Ireland.
Like my freind said life is a clusterfux
If I was 100% sure there was no God and we evolved. I dont think it would be safe sharing that info with more than 1% of the population. And only then to maintain my sanity.
If the intellectuals kill God. The cretins will kill the intellectuals in the street.
yknot

In every public school science textbook there is a chapter on evolution.
It is not mandated by law to be covered only that it has to have a chapter within the textbook.
When touched on it is offered as an alternative theory, usually followed by the teacher professing no belief in the principle.
It is widely rejected throughout Texas at all levels of education both public and private.
I don't know any teacher or professor that teaches it in their classrooms as fully valid.
If you have a problem with this I am sorry, feel free to move to Texas and join a school board and rally your cause.
I can respect your views and politely disagree. Can you with mine?
And again if we are slotted to evolve and cease to exist as homo sapiens why does it matter anyways?
What is the purpose? Do you evolutionist hope to find some scientific grounds to delay or prevent what yall feel is inevitable?
How does believing and teaching evolution make any difference in society?
What is the big deal, you don't believe us and we don't fully believe you.......but technically each can be argued as erroneous.
I ask not as an antagonist but from lack of understanding the zeal of evolutionist. It truly baffles those of us raised with creationism.
maximumtool

YKnot:
No offense intended, but I have no idea how you have any certification in any area of biology, or science for that matter. Your very post reveals that you know very little about even the basics of what is considered science, or what is part of the process of conducting anything related to science...
If I am reading your last post correctly, I feel very sorry for the students in Texas. And I feel very sorry for the faculty, who many were no doubt at one point also students, in Texas. If what you are saying is remotely close to accurate, they are clearly victims of a flawed education system.
To quote you, and then reply:
"I can respect your views and politely disagree. Can you with mine?"
I can politely disagree with you, but I can not respect your views anymore then if you came on here and said that "Satan is really the reason people get cancer, and biologists should abandon their efforts to find cures because they are powerless to fight Satan." Your statements in this thread are in the same league...
"And again if we are slotted to evolve and cease to exist as homo sapiens why does it matter anyways?"
Statements like these make me question if you have any true accredited credentials. Homo Sapiens, or any species for that matter, are not slotted to evolve or cease to exist. We will exist in our environment, and as a population adapt to its changes, as long as circumstance permits. If circumstances lead to changes in our environment that we can not adapt to as a population, then as a population we will cease to exist. Its very, very basic.
"What is the purpose? Do you evolutionist hope to find some scientific grounds to delay or prevent what yall feel is inevitable?"
This shows another misunderstanding of the very basics of what science is all about. Science is a search for explanations. It is not a search for the specific answers that we as individuals want to questions that we have. If some inevitable catastrophe was looming, coming up with a theory for us that we all would like to believe in would do nothing to change the event. A proper and valid theory however can lead to the creation of tools that we can use to help ourselves out on an individual and population level. And evolution, as a theory, has done that many times, particularly in the realm of biology.
"How does believing and teaching evolution make any difference in society?"
It makes sense in the sense that it is, to date, the best explanation for the facts laid before us regarding life on this planet, and the biodeversity we see around us. For many people, their lives are completely unaffected by whethey they personally believe in evolution or creation. However, their lives are affected when they get sick. When that happens, they are very fortunate that the vast majority of individuals directly and indirectly influencing their recovery are evolutionists.
"What is the big deal, you don't believe us and we don't fully believe you.......but technically each can be argued as erroneous."
The big deal is that one is an explanation of determined facts (evolution) and another is a myth that exists in contradiction to determined facts (creation). I, for one, prefer the first in all aspects of my life. I have no time for anymore garbage. It is why I left the witnesses!
"I ask not as an antagonist but from lack of understanding the zeal of evolutionist."
The zeal comes from finally at least having some grasp on truth, as in real truth.
"It truly baffles those of us raised with creationism."
Not all of us. I was a hard core creationist. BIG TIME. You would probably love some of the papers I used to write and what I used to do in college and high school classrooms. Arguing with the teacher, calling them idiots, fighting with them when I had literally no idea what the hell I was talking about. It was all straight out of the WTower, the Creation book, creationist propoganda...basically, anything I could find. I literally could not have been more wrong. I was just as zealous as I am today, it is just now I understand the real importance of truth, and that there is real true joy in the learning experience and educating myself, and not just living on whatever dogcrap is forcefed down my throat...
loosie

Ok if both evolution and creation are theories. Teach them both as THEORY.
Creationists says you can't prove evolution, but I say you can't PROVE creation.
mkr32208

NO do not teach the RIDICULOUSNESS of creation EVER! Whats next? In humanities we have to learn about Santa and the Easter bunny? Teaching creation is state sponsored ignorance. Sure they teach about creation in schools in TX. They also teach that George Bush is smart and global warming is caused by angels farting.
As to atheist leading to the county going to hell... PLEASE SPARE ME! What percentage of people in prison are religious? 90%? 95%? You go down into the slums and high crime area's and there's a freaking church every other block. The majority of low income people in the US are EXTREMELY religious! It's the more affluent law abiding college educated (and not some 2 year AS degree from 'Bob's community college") people who are atheist. People who believe in god are the problem on every level!!!
As to the comment "why are evolutionist so zealous..." Um that may be one of the dumbest things I've ever read! I think I'm dumber for having READ it. Christians are the most preachy self righteous zealous on the planet! I don't see any atheist going door to door or offering aid for conversions in third world countries!
To say that evolution and creation are "competing theories" is just so f%cking ignorant! Evolution is a scientifically tested 'theory' where creation is just a myth. There are steps that have to be taken to be called a 'theory' and creation has not passed those so it's INSULTING to even call creation a 'theory' it's not a theory it's an ignorant myth.
yknot

Max
Politely offended.
Go back and read my posts, I do not indulge in anything other then discussing how evolution is perceived within the state of Texas. So making the accusation that "I know very little about the basics of what is consider science" is offensive, patronizing and overreaching.
So if you can't respect my views this means you assume yours are the only respectable/acceptable explanation? That is not very scientific. It is just plain onesided, closed minded and argumentative.
Your whole post seems to be aimed at questioning (undermining) my education because I don't believe as you.
You equate science with evolution as an absolute and it colors all of your responses. Evolution is not an absolute.
You perceive one theory as fact and the other as myth when both sides have equal ammunition to fuel this argument until the sun burns out. Can you prove that there is no God, who acted as a Creator? Is the 'facts' of evolution consistant? It is generally agreed that 100,000 years ago homo sapiens came into existance but how? Is there one solid theory or many? Not to say creationist don't have a similar discussion, was it 7 literal days, 7000, or 70,000.
You said zeal come from you believing that evolution is the real truth, you also mentioned it was why you are happy not to be a Witness. Yet just like the Witnesses your perception is the only persception acceptable.
not just living on whatever dogcrap is forcefed down my throat...
Yet Evolutionist insist on being absolutely right and having the 'troof' and have no problem forcing down their "dogcr*p" down the throats of every state of the union.
You may have left the Witnesses but your thinking ain't that different.
Breathe..... your way is not the only way and neither is mine.
badboy

BTTTTT
maximumtool

Loosie:
When a scientific concept is classified as a "theory", "theory" is not meant as the same thing as when you and I use it on a daily basis in typical conversation, like when you are talking about something like a hunch.
When a scientist proposes a scientific theory, what they are attempting to do is explain a set of facts that have already been determined. Then that theory is tested and is either (1) rejected - because it failed all of the tests, or (2) modified - because it passed some of the tests but not all of them, or (3) accepted - as in it passes all reasonable and applicable tests.
This should tell something about theories. For one thing, a theory is only as concrete as the results of the current round of testing. In other words, an "accepted" theory can quickly become fully or partially invalid if a new test comes around and the results of the test, which are the facts mentioned above, conflict with what the theory would tell you to expect from the test. This will result in either the theory being "modified", or in some cases being flat out "rejected".
The order of events is: first, you determine the facts, and only after that do you determine the theory. After you have developed your initial theory, most likely new facts will continue to present themselves, usually through additional testing. These new and additional facts will guide the continued acceptance, modification, or flat out rejection of the theory. You do not develop a theory and then hang onto it in spite of the facts, or reject the facts because you dont like them.
Theories that are widely held do get flat out rejected from time to time, and that is the beauty of science. One widely known example of this is the idea of a flat Earth. The Theory of a Flat Earth was put forth to attempt to explain facts, and the theory met the "tests" for some time. Then more appropriate testing began and the theory was appropriately rejected, though not without attempts at modification of the theory (which unbelievably continue to this day.)
Another not as well known example is with regards to "ether", which was a widely accepted theory until about 120 years ago. Too much info to write here, but if you are interested in learning you can look up the Mickelson and Morley experiments of the 19th century. Truly brilliant guys...
Evolution as a theory has pretty much stayed in the "accepted" category since it was proposed. But, just like any other theory in science, it could find itself in position to need thorough modification, or flat out rejection, if a valid and appropriate test came along that showed that the theory was not the best explanation for life and the bioversity on this planet.
In a way, this is what has happened with Creationism, particulary Young Earth Creationism. As a theory it is very old, several thousand years, and was offered up to explain the existance of life and the biodiversity on this planet. What has happened is that virtually every established fact, which exist regardless of whatever theories we as humans come up with, lies in direct contradiction with what the theory of Creationism and Young Earth Creationism tells us to expect.
Creation theory should not be taught as an appropriate alternative to Evolution theory anymore then "Theistic Energy Propogation Theory" (yes, I made that up) should be taught as an alternative to the Theory of Special and General Relativity.
Do you see what I mean?
Qcmbr

I wish schools would teach nothing religious save historical ideas and background of major philosophical thought - surely its the job of the churches to teach ANY religious dogma such as creationism.

While I'm not convinced in all the ramifications of evolution its an ongoing scientific study that is equally relevant to all people regardless of race or creed - not something true of creationism.

CREATIONIST TEACHERS

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