JWs at the door

by HB 11 Replies latest jw experiences

  • HB
    HB

    Yesterday, my 23 year old son Mark was the only one in our house and was just drying off after a shower when the front doorbell rang. He was expecting a friend to arrive, so he pulled on a pair of underpants and went to open the door and let his friend in, only to find two sweet-looking, demurely dressed middle aged JW ladies on the doorstep holding magazines.

    Mark was not particularly embarrassed, but the ladies were visibly taken aback by his appearance and were speechless for a couple of seconds. Mark assumed they were shocked by his wet, wild looking hair and 2 day's worth of stubble (he was just about to shave) but I wonder if they were just guiltily enjoying the sight of a good-looking fit young man wearing nothing but a pair of boxer shorts!

    I was sorry I missed the ladies, as I have always enjoyed talking with JWs at the door but in the past, I have simply based my arguements on philosophical issues as I did not know anything about the WTS. However now I have learnt a few things from this site, I feel I could have a much more interesting discussion, and I would relish it.

    I know that trying to get brainwashed people to understand reality is like eating custard with a fork, but unlike many of you here, I have no painful memories of being in the cult and have no distressing family pressures that hold me back from speaking, so why not, I have nothing to lose but time.

    One occasion years ago I answered the door to JWs with my newborn 5 day old daughter in my arms, and after cooing over the baby for a few minutes and enquiring about my other two small children who were peering inquisitively at the callers, the couple asked if I was worried about bringing up children to be righteous in a sinful world. I looked at my beautiful innocent daughter and asked them if they believed babies were born sinful and they had to gulp before admitting in a mumble that they did. I just told them politely there was no point in us continuing this discussion and they hurriedly left.

    Returning to Thursday, Mark knows a little about JWs as I have told him some of what I have been learning from this forum, but although like me, he enjoys a good debate, he didn't feel he was appropriately dressed to engage in a discussion at that moment, and anyway his friend was about to arrive, so he just said he was too busy and maybe another time.

    I have never been a JW and would be grateful for advice on the following points:

    1. Is it likely that the JW ladies would take Mark's off the cuff statement of "maybe another time" as literal and actually come back in the near future, or would they take it as a polite brush off? (Many English are often too polite; we use euphemisms instead of saying what we mean, so I thought these ladies might regularly be used to hearing "another time" at lots of doors and not take it literally).

    2. If they do take it literally, would it be likely to be the same two ladies who come back, or do they give the addresses of potentially interested householders to their team leader who then decides who will do a return visit?

    3. If there is to be a return visit, is it likely to be the same day of the week as the first visit (Thursday in this case)?

    4. Do they have a set amount of time that they spend at each house or will they continue talking for as long as I seem 'interested'?

    5. If I ask a question they cannot answer, would that probably make them leave?

    6. Is it better to invite them in or keep them on the doorstep?

    I realise if it's the same two ladies they might well be disappointed to have me to talk to and not my son (!), but although Mark probably will be in, (he is very busy running his own web-design business from home), he said if they return, he would probably leave it to me to talk but would listen in from another room.

    The ladies left Mark with the March 08 Awake and the 1 April 08 Watchtower mags, which he threw straight in the recycling bin after they left, but I have pulled them out to read. Most of it made me squirm and clench my toes in revulsion, but in a couple of place I just laughed at the sheer comic ridiculousness of the statements.

    I have dutifully used a highlighter on each page of the magazines (I have heard from all of you here that that's what JWs do before meetings), but I have highlighted things I think are wrong or don't make sense.

    The first article in the Awake magazine is entitled "Is there one true religion?" It states that if you follow the moral laws of the bible, good consequences will be realised and if you don't, bad ones will happen. It claims this proves "the bible's moral laws hold true for all mankind". The next bit is the statement that really gets me: they say " IT LOGICALLY FOLLOWS" that as the bible's moral laws are true, it must therefore mean that the bible's teachings on worship, what happens when we die and hope for an everlasting future "are also truths".

    My understanding of the meaning of logic is obviously very different to theirs.

    It also makes me laugh how they bossily say: "So think: ....." before a statement, conditioning the reader to feel that if they don't agree, they simply haven't thought hard enough about the subject.

    I guess you are all very familiar with the Watchtower and Awake writing style and the unbelievable content that has no relevance to most people's lives, but it's all new and morbidly fascinating to me.

    If you have any further advice on how to talk effectively to JWs at the door-step, I would be grateful to hear it.

    Heather

  • Hortensia
    Hortensia

    I don't have any answers to your questions as I have been out for too many years, but I just loved your post! Love your attitude, too. The WT and AW are toe-curlingly awful, aren't they?

  • crazyblondeb
    crazyblondeb
    Mark assumed they were shocked by his wet, wild looking hair and 2 day's worth of stubble (he was just about to shave) but I wonder if they were just guiltily enjoying the sight of a good-looking fit young man wearing nothing but a pair of boxer shorts!

    I only wished I had rang that doorbell!!

  • Bring_the_Light
    Bring_the_Light

    wow! Thanks for your interest in this! First off, they will for sure come back eventually. Dubs have your community better mapped and organized than your city government. They visit "every" home in their "territory" every couple of years. Basically they go through everybody, when they get to the end they start over again. I remember the more experienced ones knew entire neighborhoods of people basically by name, what their religion was, and how they responded "last time". If you ACTUALLY want them to come back, call or write a letter declaring so to the local Kingdom Hall. You'll have half a dozen pioneers humping your leg in a matter of days. If you are so willing, ask for a regular Bible study, and I'm sure we'd be happy to feed you ammunition if you're willing to fire the gun. :) Bring_the_Light

  • bigmouth
    bigmouth

    1. Is it likely that the JW ladies would take Mark's off the cuff statement of "maybe another time" as literal and actually come back in the near future, or would they take it as a polite brush off? (Many English are often too polite; we use euphemisms instead of saying what we mean, so I thought these ladies might regularly be used to hearing "another time" at lots of doors and not take it literally). Both are possibilities. But most Witnesses are as lazy at returning to interested people as they are at researching what they believe. You have a 20% chance of another visit.

    2. If they do take it literally, would it be likely to be the same two ladies who come back, or do they give the addresses of potentially interested householders to their team leader who then decides who will do a return visit? No, it will probably be them.

    3. If there is to be a return visit, is it likely to be the same day of the week as the first visit (Thursday in this case)? It might be if that is the day they like going out. Or it could be on the weekend

    4. Do they have a set amount of time that they spend at each house or will they continue talking for as long as I seem 'interested'? They will talk for hours if you let them unless; 1. They're with a group that has to get somewhere. 2. It's after lunchtime.

    5. If I ask a question they cannot answer, would that probably make them leave? No. They'll try and jump to another subject that they feel comfortable with. If you insist on getting them to answer they will say they'll do some research and get back to you. You then have a 50% chance of them returning with a 'Pioneer sister' or an 'Elder' who will try again with you.

    6. Is it better to invite them in or keep them on the doorstep? Doesn't matter. How long do you want to stand for?

    Hope that helps HB. And good luck.

    Pete

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Look up the official WT website.

    Search for "cult"

    The first hit will lead you to this article http://www.watchtower.org/e/19970601/article_02.htm

    Secrecy in the Name of the Lord

    In it they say;

    ".....Jehovah's Witnesses are in no sense a secret society. Their Bible-based beliefs are fully explained in publications that are available to anyone....."

    When your sweet door knocker offers you a copy of her 1st of the month Watchtower, ask her for a copy of the 15th of the month issue.

    If they refuse, tell them what you read on their official public website, and ask them to explain why you can't have a copy.

    Cheers

    Chris

  • bigmouth
    bigmouth

    If you have any further advice on how to talk effectively to JWs at the door-step, I would be grateful to hear it.

    I was just thinking of what the one thing that used to throw me when I went door to door.
    People who listened politely to what I had to say and then quietly explained that what I said made no sense to them. These people would question the logic of what I had to say and made me realise that I had never thought rationally what I was believing. I was a well trained parrot !

    I could cope with people being angry, rude, argumentative or disinterested but I didn't know what to do when I couldn't get a 'nice' person to 'get it'. I used to think, 'What's wrong with me ?"

  • White Dove
    White Dove

    Have fun, you masochist! Or is it sadist? Yes, I'd rather think you are a sadist

    Please, do keep us updated.

  • HB
    HB

    Thank you for your replies, very useful.

    Bring the Light,

    I didn't realise the door to door work was so organised, I thought they just drove around and decided on a whim where they felt like going that day! There's so much to learn.

    Unfortunately I am sure the local JWs would not accept me for a study.

    The reason I came to this site in the first place was that a 20 year old friend is currently studying with the Witnesses and I have been learning about the cult in order to try to show her the other side of the coin. Her bible study conductor has told her that I am an agent of Satan trying to tempt her away from the truth. Fortunately at present, my friend is ignoring this as she has known me for many years.

    We live in a village in a relatively rural area and there is only one Kingdom Hall in the vicinity, so I am sure word would soon get around as to who I was if I rang and asked someone to call. My friend's study conductor does not know where I live at present, but she does know my name.

    Pity as otherwise I would love the idea of being a secret agent!!

    Bigmouth,

    Thanks for the info, very useful. I used to work in a court office and was trained to keep calm and be polite to people whatever the circumstances, and my nature is placid, so I would discuss ideas with JWs in an even tone and be respectful and 'nice', Thanks for your advice though, interesting to see things from another perspective.

    Black sheep,

    Fantastic idea, yes I will use that if I get the chance to talk to them.

    White Dove.

    Yes sadist not masochist, it would be fun for me but not for the JWs I hope!

    Heather

  • StAnn
    StAnn

    In all honesty, if you try to discuss questions about their beliefs, you won't get far with them because they are so completely brainwashed to accept what the WTS tells them. It doesn't usually accomplish much, even if you can prove to them that they're wrong, because they will eventually rationalize that they really were right and just didn't understand your comments at the time.

    That brings me to my point. Don Cameron has a wonderful book out called Captives of a Concept that is about nothing but how to talk to JWs in a way that they aren't prepared to defend. The book is well worth buying and not expensive. You can get it here and buy it in pdf format so that you have it right away: http://www.captivesofaconcept.com/index.php

    V did an interview with him. Here's the link to it, very interesting to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5trkRpIa-3Q

    God bless your heart for trying!

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