GOD---the anti-concept

by Terry 33 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  journey-on

  That may be so, Terry. But then you are just quoting words from some other verbose human who has contemplated the

  nature of reality and written down their philosophy for others to grab up like an obedient dog lapping crumbs from its master.

  It's only natural for people to need people to tell them how to think, what to think, and why to think that way. When you learn

  how to listen to that which speaks to us all, you won't rely on philosophical ramblings from some other human that sounds like

  they know the answers to Life.

  There were a lot of things unknown in the past that are now known. If you think for one second that what we know is all

  that we can know or even only that which can be measured, then you are a person that lacks imagination and vision. I

  am saying that there is more than the eye can see or the ear can hear. Sure, some people take it to delusional extremes

  and that becomes a hurdle that those seeking rational answers have to endure. The spiritual becomes confused with the

  paranormal and the mystical gets thrown into the mix and then it just becomes weird.

  As long as you look at Divine Intelligence as a Blob itself rather than a flow of consciousness that communes with the universe,

  you won't understand the reasoning. You will continue to slap some philosophical label on this "theory" and call it ....what was it?....

  oh, yeah, "Fallacy of Argument from Ignorance". And others will continue to look to some outside entity (the blob) they call God to solve mankind's

  ills, and when this doesn't happen, they rage against a perceived injustice and in their anger and frustration blame The Blob. Mankind has created

  their own problems and mankind has the ability to solve them if the scales stay balanced. Lean too much one way or the other for too long a period

  of time, then our evolution upward may cease or even spiral downward. Enough of my argument from ignorance.
• 

  Terry

  That was interesting. It may come as a surprise, but I think the best (imo) of theology would readily agree that God is an anti-concept. Perhaps not the only one btw. "Being" and "nothingness," "infinity," "absolute" or "eternity" would qualify equally I believe.

  But whether our thinking process can dispense with such "anti-concepts" altogether is a very different question.

  Sorting out our paradoxes...that's the problem, as I see it.

  We have a magnificent engine; this brain of ours. But, our internal tracking system needs work.

  We tend not to file things accurately. Consequently, we get our imaginary constructs in the same file with concrete referents :)

  Look how long it too mankind to conceive of zero. ZERO!!

  Thousands of years without being able to come up with 0.

  So useful, too.

  How can "nothing" trip us up and render our math ineffectual in so many ways without it???

  You know my view. It is crushingly simple, really. It begins with a best effort toward as accurate a definition as we can get for each of our Concepts. Then, we sort according to CONCRETE and IMAGINARY. It is a gray scale, to be sure. Yet, like zero, we can't do the higher functions precisely without it.
• 

  Terry

  That may be so, Terry. But then you are just quoting words from some other verbose human who has contemplated the

  nature of reality and written down their philosophy for others to grab up like an obedient dog lapping crumbs from its master.

  How melodramatic! It sounds like one of those screeds from the Unibomber :)

  It's only natural for people to need people to tell them how to think, what to think, and why to think that way. When you learn

  how to listen to that which speaks to us all, you won't rely on philosophical ramblings from some other human that sounds like

  they know the answers to Life.

  Hearing voices, are we?

  As long as you look at Divine Intelligence as a Blob itself rather than a flow of consciousness that communes with the universe,

  you won't understand the reasoning.

  I have a long way to go before I reach your level--that's for sure.
• 

  journey-on

  Not to be argumentative, Terry, but you calling my use of language "melodramatic" is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black, don't you think?..... (Do I need to post examples?)

  Sorry to disappoint you, but I have never heard voices. I'm using the phrase, "that which speaks to us all", metaphorically. (And it does.)

  Levels of what???? Intelligence, understanding, awareness??

  You like to talk about filing systems of the brain and you have one called "Imaginary" and one called "Concrete".

  I cannot put that which I have experienced personally as far as a communicating divine intelligence in the file labelled "Imaginary" because I have had

  personal experiences that defy that word. Youcannot put it any place but "Imaginary" because you have not personally experienced it (with awareness).

  Where does Truth lie? I may be able to put The God Blob Entity under the category "Imaginary" or, The Biblical God under that category,

  but I cannot put "A Divine Intelligence that Communes" under anything but "Concrete". I've experienced it and I am no delusional idiot with a wild

  imagination. Let me add that I have NEVER had a paranormal experience. I'm not knocking those who have, but what I speak of is different. What

  I speak of is also different from aesthetics.

  It is crushingly simple, really.

  Indeed....
• 

  Caedes

  By the same token, can you say that energy and matter and life itself wasn't brought into existence by divine intelligence behind it.

  Quite easily, the entire universe and everything in it is entirely natural and came into existance through entirely natural means without any supernatural force shaping it. That seems much more rational than universe shaping blobs that commune with humans.

  Despite your protestations you subscribe to magical thinking journey-on.
• 

  journey-on

  the entire universe and everything in it is entirely natural and came into existance through entirely natural means

  We are on the same page! I agree it is all natural. Perhaps it is the "language" that is confusing me.

  Please describe "natural" and I will know whether or not we are saying the same thing.

  Caedes: Re-read my post.....I do not subscribe to a supernatural Blob that speaks to humans.
• 

  journey-on

  I guess what I'm saying here, Caedes, is that you can have the conscious intelligence without the Blob. The Blob is matter,

  and matter was not in existence prior to "The Big Bang". The Pure Consciousness existed non-corporeally as No Thing.....pure

  spirit (whatever THAT is). What initiated the movement....the Big Bang....isn't known by science. But that is when matter

  as we know it came into existence with tremendous speed and force. Before that happened, there was a consciousness of indefinable potential

  that "decided" to create the physical world. This consciousness is what I call the Divine Intelligence and through the natural world/cosmos that resulted

  from this movement, everything else came into being. I don't think this Divine Intelligence or Pure Consciousness is an entity or God Blob. I think it is

  in all, through all, and around all and we have the potential to be able to tap into it.
• 

  Awakened07

  This consciousness is what I call the Divine Intelligence and through the natural world/cosmos that resulted

  from this movement, everything else came into being. I don't think this Divine Intelligence or Pure Consciousness is an entity or God Blob. I think it is

  in all, through all, and around all and we have the potential to be able to tap into it.

  As Dr. Phil would say: "How's that working for you?". No , but seriously - let's say you're right (and I'm not totally alien to the idea, actually). How does this "hypothesis" help answer certain questions that always arise when it comes to some kind of interfering deity? The problem of suffering and evil is still there, for instance. I hear stories, from you and others, how this 'force' is guiding certain events in your lives so that you have to believe there's something more. This in turn begs the question why this force only decides to help some, in what seems to be very arbitrary ways, granting a soccer mom the same parking space five days in a row, while ignoring a girl being raped nearby, to put it bluntly (and exaggerate to make a point). If this intelligent 'force' is powerful enough to have caused the universe to exist as it is, it should be powerful enough to help us all in more effective ways, IMO.

  A non-interfering such force I could "get" with what I see around me, but then again - if it's not interfering at all, it may as well not exist.

  An interfering such force however, raises a few questions. Doesn't it?
• 

  journey-on

  Good question, Awakened07.

  Here is the way I see it. This "energy" (for lack of a better word) is throughout the cosmos. It is in perfect synchronicity and harmony.

  Stars and galaxies dying and being born are all part of this perfect universal synchronicity. It is a perfect balance of opposites in and of itself.

  Mankind as a species is able to access the benefits from living in perfect harmony with this Divine Intelligence. But, because we have free will

  and have not yet evolved (all in due time) to this state of perfect synchronicity, we have created all kinds of problems and imperfections that WE

  must solve. Individuals can sometimes access this perfect syncronicity, but none can maintain it. There is no Blob God that constantly interferes

  with man's affairs. It is a free-flowing "energy" available to all. We have autonomous free will, otherwise we would just be toy robots.

  A simple (though somewhat inadequate) example is the power of electricity that runs through the wiring in our house. That electricity is not going to reach out and grab the plug

  of your computer and plug it into the socket of the wall. YOU have to reach out and plug in to that power with the intention of using it properly, and then if your machine

  is in good repair and well-maintained, you will have the benefit of its usefulness. The Divine Intelligence has not created man's problems and inefficiencies......man himself

  has done that. But, man does have it within his species itself to tap into this power/intelligence and solve the problems we have created ourselves. It is up to us to do the reaching.
• 

  Awakened07

  The Divine Intelligence has not created man's problems and inefficiencies......man himself has done that.

  I see what you're saying (I think), but how has mankind created the physical and mental pain caused by natural diseases, natural disasters, and loss of loved ones?