by drew sagan 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I hear what you're saying. If you don't believe in God, then there are really only crackpots and coincidentally lucky crackpots. No prophets in the religious sense and certainly not in the narrow Deuteronomic sense.
I think if you favor a more general definition of the word, "Prophet" and see it as a synonym for "Prognosticator" "Forecaster" or "Predictor", then there doesn't necessarily need to be a religious element and corresponding belief in God involved.
Personally I would think having no faith in God or the bible just makes every prophet a false prophet. Anyone who claims to speak for God, interpert scripture, etc.. etc... Would be doing so falsely. Or at least would be doing so based upon their own human reasoning.
I do not accept the suggestion that because I am an atheist I cannot say that the WTB&TS is a false prophet.
Are men exempt from identifying beautiful women because the men are not female?
Can only a Muslim judge a Muslim, Hindu a Hindu, Scientologist a Scientologist, etc?
Why does one have to be a member of the "I have an invisible friend" club to speak out against delusions and misrepresentation?
Nobody has to be a member of the 'i have an invisible friend" to speak out against what they believe is error. You missed my point.
Let me put it this way. Let's say that person-a does not believe in evil spirits and wants to criticize a certain church that does believes in evil spirits and says we can contact them. What purpose would it serve person-a to criticize the church for being filled with teachings that connect to the spirit realm? Why would he care about making such a point? Why argue that the church 'promotes spiritism' when you don't believe such things even exist. Wouldn't you be more inclined to call them out on the idea that you can contact spirits, rather than discuss whether it is good or bad?
That's kind of how I feel about the 'false prophet' label. I'm not saying it can't be applied in a more secular manner, it very much can be. But I was instead trying to focus the discussion on how on the 'false prophet' aspect of their predictions only really scratches the surface and doesn't bring depth to the argument. Worry to much about wether the Watchtower fits a certain label or not and you begin to forget about well over a century of continued practice that goes way beyond a few dates.
JWs are very good at defending themselves against the 'false prophet' label. What I'm saying is why not bypass it. Sure the JWs had some stupid ideas in regards to 1914, 1918, 1925, and 1975. But what is the end result?. As I brought out in my original post there are hundreds of other things the JWs have changed over the years in regards to prophecy so that they can continuously say that the end will happen within the lifetime of the person reading their magazines. No JW today believes he will not see Armageddon, with the exception of old people who are starting to face their own mortality.
Decades of members dying off who thought the end was going to be in their lifetime. Why follow a group that has refused to give up a failed method of belief. Why trust them as a guide?
Has the Watchtower done things that has made them guilty of the 'false prophet' label. Yes!. But as the title of this thread suggests, that's not really what I personally care about. Its the repeated decades of failed speculation. Telling kids in the 1960s not to get an education, telling kids in the 1930s not to marry, ect. The WTS continues to demand their members conform to a lifestyle based on a method of predictions that has failed hundreds (if not thousands) of times for them. I see this as so much bigger than just 1914, 1918, 1925 and 1975.
"But there is another force at work as well, and that is their desire to continually see the present as if it is on the brink of a cataclysmic change in the order of humanity. No matter what point in time you examine throughout the groups history, you will see a very definite proclamation that all has been fulfilled and there is nothing to wait for but the end. "
That's pre-millennial historicism. All pre-millennial historicists (and later, pre-millennnial dispensationalists) viewed their present day as on the brink of cataclysmic change. Augustine interpreted the millennium as having its fulfillment in the church, so everything was moving along fine and dandy. This view prevailed for centuries. The innovation of pre-millennialism was that the millennium has not come to pass yet, and we are just on the brink of it--a cataclysmic change. Every pre-millenialist ever since holds this very same viewpoint!
There is nothing new here. Only the names and dates have changed. The JWs are not innovators in this category!
You'll see exact parallels in other groups. Look at other groups, like the Armstrong followers. They are of the same heritage and follow the exact same patterns.
Just calling a spade --- a spade!
ESTEE
True enought, M.J. - the witnesses only copied this kind of crackpot chronology from millenialites like the adventists before them.
But for sure, in the past century, the Jehovah's Witnesses have become absolutely the most obvious and famous example of "false time of the end prophecy" of all these apocalyptic groups.
Quite an accomplishment, wouldn't you say?
The very term implies that there are True Prophets, which, of course, is false.
Yeah, but try watching Hal Lindsey on cable.
Not to mention all these guys:
http://www.abhota.info/end3.htm
I'll give it to the WTS for the scale of their operation.
Personally, i could'nt care less if they believe ernie, bert, and snuffalupagus are the holy trinity. I care that they harm their members, cover up abuse, kill kids with their constantly changing blood doctrine, etc.
I like to call them what they are "a false prophet."
