WHY we can not afford health care in the US...

by zeroday 57 Replies latest jw friends

  • restrangled
    restrangled

    Hillary...glad you agree....we need more people that understand this thinking!

    There is a website for those struggling with the care of these aged parents. It's loaded with offspring who no longer have a life due to taking care of aging miserable parents while the medical communiy continues to keep them alive.

    I haven't been to their site in awhile so don't have it off hand, but if some one is interested, PM me and I will send you the link.

    My grandparents died in their mid to late 70's....and it was ok. No diapers, oxycotin, vitamins, or viagra. They died loved by all , in their own beds and not in a hospital...... without oxgen tanks, and did not burden their children for years on end.

    r.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    This assumes that somehow these undocumented workers are somehow magically a loss to America. The opposite is true. Of course, it's nice work if you can get it, getting people to come contribute to your society but giving them no benefits of said society.

    Americans can't afford healthcare because there is this huge perversion called "insurance" standing in the way.

    There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING positive that all the myriads of competing insurance companies do that couldn't be replaced by ONE agency with a kick-ass actuary sciences team (probably already in place and producing most of what's needed at the GAO), a solid administrator, and a leading edge web-master with a great support team. Every American should be able to go the same website to make initial contact with the healthcare system, and from there every American should have their own personal web-space to interact with their various doctors and have access to their own records, along with solid, tailored to the individual, healthcare research and preventative care information.

    ONE sensible system replaces a thousand incomprehensible varieties of epic fail.

    The term "preexisting condition" should be stricken from the language. It's helpful how?

    Insurance Co. Competition? Adds nothing. Takes away.

    Insurance Co. Profit? Adds nothing. Takes away. Sometimes kills.

    Insurance Co. Advertising? Adds nothing. Takes away.

    Insurance executive salaries? Adds nothing. Takes away.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Cuba even treats people from other countries as a service (you yanks could learn so much from the Cubans ... they are much better with fuel usage too, LOL)

    I doubt it. I've still got family over there and they don't think it is very good. The Cubans that can teach a lesson are all in Miami with real medical degrees.

    http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm

    I guess we'd be better with fuel usage also if we lived like shit.

    alt

    BTS

  • wednesday
    wednesday

    Managed care was supposed to contain costs etc in our health care. Doctors are told by insurance companies what tests they can run and what meds the insurance company will cover. If they ordered too many tests they would be dropped from the insurance company, and then will lose the business of all the patients who are looking for a doctor who is contracted with their insurance company.

    This has made money for insurance companies as they deny care routinely and postpone paying bills, and force subscribers to "fight" for their benefits. They often just deny something and hope you will not pursue it. Laws were passed to prevent the discrimination of insurance companies against the mentally ill- by making them pay for that care the same as medical care. They have found was to circumvent these laws in many sates . a favorite work around is to limit yearly benefits but not life times.

    Unfortunately if and when someone really gets to he bottom of this whale sh*t system- they will find our government is involved. our government is some form is backing and helping these insurance companies and pharmacy companies. So if we "go after " the pharmaceutical companies for gouging us or for the insurance companies for denying care, etc, - some embarrassing things will probably come to the surface.

    This system's broken- i personally do not believe it can be fixed. Too many people have their hands in the cookie jar. doctors have become accustomed to a very nice life style, and medical schools are very expensive. Docs expect some return for all that education and money spent. I think they should be paid fairly too, However, system must be in place for those who are need to provide basic health care. No infant ( or adult) should have to go deaf due to repeated ear infections due to the fact that even if they took the infant to the ER- they still have to buy the medicine.

    One thing that will happen if they extend Medicare or Medicaid to cover the uninsured- you will find that our government will stop paying the doctors. It is happening now. Medicaid and Medicare docs are often terrorized by a system that is really set up to just deny payment and burden them with excessive paperwork. More and more in this area doc's just do not accept Medicare patients, and Medicaid doctors can really be hard to find.

    I too agree that at some point your quality life becomes and issue, but I do not want anyone else making that decision for me except my family ( or me provided I am able ) I believe all life has value in God's eyes. Granny is not the family pet that you put to sleep when she becomes old. I never considered my parents a burden and do not begrudge them anytime I gave them ( so I could be out living my life) They gave me plenty of time as a child.

    This assumes that somehow these undocumented workers are somehow magically a loss to America. The opposite is true. Of course, it's nice work if you can get it, getting people to come contribute to your society but giving them no benefits of said socie

    a lot of illegals work off the books and don't pay any taxes but are using the resources. I have no problem with anyone being here legally and working on the books and paying taxes like the rest of us.

  • sweetstuff
    sweetstuff

    Ok, what scares me about the "old people shouldn't receive medical help to extend their lives, they are dieing anyway" mentality...

    Who decides for you or me, when its our time to go?

    Ok you are 59 and you have cancer, you are then told...'suck it up ms, you are too old to want to live longer to see your grandkids grow up, have some dignity!'

    You are 65, just retired, whoohoo and the doctor finds out you have a closed heart valve, tough luck for you huh? Why would you possibly want to live longer than 65?? Oh, you wanted to finally have the freedom to travel with your wife? Well, book her a solo trip cause you are just too damn old to be a burden to our healthcare economy.

    Or say...you are 80 years old and you break your hip. Doctors look at each other and decide to give you a lethal dose of morphine cause its alot cheaper than the surgery to fix your hip. (Even though you are completely mentally sound still and in generally good health, tough break!)

    While I agreed that no one should be forced to live a crappy quality of life towards the end...that is up to that person to decide and their family, to start dictating what should be or shouldn't be acceptable at certain ages is a very dangerous mentality to have, IMO.

  • Scully
    Scully
    How about all this ridiculous care for people in their 80's, and 90's ....chemo, prescribed vitamins, kidney dialysis, etc., etc. extending their lives, making those around them miserable as we change their diapers, wait on them hand and foot, prolonging their misery for 100's of thousand of dollars. They lose their minds, and ability to think, drive, etc. shower, and dress while their lives are extended by the medical community. What happened to, ok it's time to wind down and go peacefully and with dignity?

    While that may be true for some people in their 80s and 90s, some elderly people are living with good quality of life and health, far moreso than even a generation ago. Your broad generalization of "people in their 80's, and 90's" is your opinion and you're entitled to have that opinion. But what about younger folks eating up health care dollars for infertility treatments? What happened to, "ok you weren't meant to have children, just suck it up and make the best of it, why not adopt or get a puppy?" That, by the way, is not my opinion on infertility treatments, but a generation ago, before we had a better understanding of infertility, it was the common approach to coping with the problem.

    When you get to be in your 80s or 90s, we'll ask you how you feel about what you posted. Your children and grandchildren may not be ready to part with you, and will hope that modern medicine will keep you around just long enough to become a burden to them.

  • restrangled
    restrangled

    Sweetstuff,

    I understand your concern. To get a better understanding of what I am talking about please read the article from Carol Mithers from the Los Angeles Times. "For the dying, less can be more"

    http://bangornews.com/news/t/viewpoints.aspx?articleid=164938&zoneid=35

    r.

  • sweetstuff
    sweetstuff

    I understand the thinking R, I just completely do not agree with it and Scully brought up a good point about people getting fertility treatment, etc. I worked with Alzehiemer's residents as a person care worker for quite a while, so I get the concept quite well, however, I do not agree that it is right to dismiss our elderly as an inconvience or burden. They wiped our asses and our snotty noses as kids, they took us to the doctor when we were sick, yet today's society seems to have little or no use for those same people once they aren't convienent or cheap to keep around. I've heard some families of the patients I cared for complaining about the cost and quite frankly I wanted to smack them in the head and say.."Who the heck paid for your braces, your clothes, your college tuition???" Oh yeah, the same person they wished would just bloodly well die off quickly and on the cheap.

  • Scully
    Scully

    restrangled:

    To get a better understanding of what I am talking about please read the article from Carol Mithers from the Los Angeles Times. "For the dying, less can be more"

    Unfortunately, you were not talking about "the dying". You were talking about

    people in their 80's, and 90's

    all of whom, according to you,

    lose their minds, and ability to think, drive, etc. shower, and dress

    and made it all about the burden on the caregivers

    making those around them miserable as we change their diapers, wait on them hand and foot, prolonging their misery for 100's of thousand of dollars

    While I agree that for "the dying", it is important to accept the inevitable and go peacefully, gracefully and with dignity, I agree with sweetstuff's position that the decision to prolong someone's life should be their's to make. This is what makes having a Living Will so vital as it will allow you to make those tough decisions before your decision-making ability is lost to Alzheimer's, or your ability to speak and voice your choices are taken from you by a stroke or some other form of disability. It takes the burden off the loved ones, so they will know exactly what measures you would want to have extended to you - or withheld from you - should you no longer be able to speak for yourself. Family members, unfortunately, may know that you wouldn't want to end up attached to tubes and having machines doing your breathing for you, but ignore your wishes so they can complain to everyone what a burden you've become and about changing your diapers and having to wait on you hand and foot, and show themselves, in so doing, what wonderful caring martyrs people they are.

    The lesson in this is to put it in writing well ahead of time to be sure that doesn't happen.

  • restrangled
    restrangled

    Scully,

    Ok, I didn't phrase it very well, but I was referring to those dieing and medical procedures being performed to keep them alive and in misery. After going through it with my own father, my mom has made it very clear what she wants and does not want at the end of her life.

    I agree it is very important to put it in writing, and actually have the conversation with your family members before it happens. Most people find it too uncomfortable to think about, but it will save a lot of misery when the time comes for all involved.

    r.

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