Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books! (page 40)

wschroeder

"Barnes Notes" were banned? .... Why would they ban those? ... Were the "Barnes Notes" in the Bethel library?"

As I remember, the first sermons to the "family" were the determination that apostates (or at least "the apostates") were avid readers of bible commentaries. Of course, these were not written by the FDS, and not approved and published by our organizational mother feeding us at the proper time, and were therefore considered part of false religion. You can take it from there to what extent they would and did carry such reasoning.

The Writing Dept library in 124 used to be open to Bethelites and had a wealth of old books, including Russell and WT originals, and the soon to be scorned commentaries. When the big hammer fell in 1980 the library was closed and moved from 124 down the hill to the 30 offices. It was Writing Dept access only after that.

When Adams and Booth questioned me in my first inquisition, they questioned whether I read commentaries, and I replied yes. They then asked where I got them. Although I had my own small collection by that time, I did not reveal it and I told them that I had found and read them in the 124 library... which was true to some small extent. It was Ciro Alicino that still remained a good source of "contraband" books for me for a few more months.... wrapped in brown paper.

Warren

wschroeder

"Some regulars in the van on meeting night were.....Harold Dies, Judy Martin, Mark Quazell (sp?), Rueben Barraza and his sister Anita, Peter Coconis, Buster Hicks (yes, that was his real name), Tim Smith, John Hill, John Shirey."

Mark Questel, my first roommate in Bethel when I landed in 79. He worked in the Service Dept and had already heard of my arrival and made sure I was in his 4-man Towers room. I didn't even know him, but his parents and my parents were friends in St. Louis, and things were arranged without my knowledge. Still didn't keep me out a job in the bindery. He got married about a year later and stayed with his wife.

Warren

crazyblondeb

This is a question from "now"...........anyone know mark shepard at bethel???

shelley

Dogpatch

Warren says,

It was Ciro Alicino that still remained a good source of "contraband" books for me for a few more months.... wrapped in brown paper.

That was the one! Ciro was the connection, the antitypical Jeremy Piven (Entourage) that got me ma Barnes NOTES (blasted DEVIL book, it was!)

What ever happened to Ciro?? EVERYONE knew him.

Except me.

R

VM44

It was Writing Dept access only after that.

That sounds bad.

I know Brooklyn Bethel had more than one library. (three is the number I believe)

Are they all closed to the average Bethelite?

Tom Cabeen

Hey Randy,

Ciro is still there, to my knowledge. His biggest claim to fame was his being the Society's liaison with the UN on the NGO debacle. I think his name was on the paperwork. He married Lolly Knocke (not positive about spelling; pronounced ku NO kee), a very sweet young lady who came to Bethel about the same time as my wife and is either a month younger or a month older, don't remember. Gloria and I knew Lolly pretty well and did some things with her before they were married, less after they were married. Ciro used to G-job giving piano lessons, as he was musical. If he would give you a note, he would write musical notes on it. I think he has been in Writing for some time now.

I think you have or had one of his talks on freeminds where he was explaining how the end was ever so close, back around the turn of the millennium. Must be even closer now, doncha know.

Tom

Satanus

The wt never made it's own bible commentary. The 'si' book came the closest. Not good enough for the studious bethelites. No wt commentary is a glaring wt admission of it's lack of serious, solid bible dogma, and lack of real scholars. What w continuous new light, the changes would be never ending.

S

Room 215

Here are some of my recollections of Bethel, circa 1966-67:

In an earlier post, I mentioned a recent trip to a local Assembly Hall to catch up on the latest in JW rhetoric -- which incidentally sounds pretty much like it always has.

While being regaled with exhortations to elevate the importance of meeting attendance to the status of that approaching a patient on life support, I couldn't help but chuckle as how so many -- not all, mind you, but many Bethelites during my tenure there in the late sixties, honed their skill at ducking meetings to the level of fine art.

Because it was policy that work assignments took precedence over all other obligations including and especially meetings and field service, many would find some pretext to stay back and piddle away at their desk or workbench. This was particularly true of the stafers assigned to the maintenance of the Bethel home.

For those assigned to weekend reception duty at 124 Columbia Heights, the building in which most of the higher-ups live, their first order of business on Sunday mornings was to go to the Hotel St. George newstand and pick up a bunch of Sunday New York Times, to deliver to the doors of bigshots like Knorr, Suiter, Couch, et al. Because these fellows so frequently lazed about the home, sleeping in, rummaging around the kitchen, etc, in casual clothes, we dubbed gthem ``the Ban-Lon'' brigade in reference to the polo shirts they favored on such occasion.

Of course, none of this inhibited them in the least from intoning solemnly on the vital importance of regularity in meetings and service whenever they took to the podium.

Or take the plight of anyone assigned to work on a project the Society deemed a top priority, such as the Watchtower Farm construction when I was there.

When ordered to shape up to move up to the farm for the job, we were laughed at when asked about bringing along ``nice'' clothes for meetings and service. In short, all we encountered was wall-to-wall work, often through the weekends and onto the the following week, and absolutely no contact with the local congregation. About the only meetings we attended were an hour's family Watchtower study on Monday, which we attended in overalls or jeans.

For such jobs, the Society would often call in to Bethel any special pioneer or circuit overseer who had specialized construction skillls. You should have seen the looks on their faces when their ovcerseers told them they wouldn't be excused from work just to go to a meeting or out in field service! (Wesley Benner, the CO who hounded Ray Franz, was one such guy). Many of these types proved to be as naive as the newest new person when it came to believing the Society's rhetoric about the sanctity of meetings and service.

This is getting long, so I'll limit myself to two last reflections, real quick. You servants, remember you we're urged to be reliable? One time when assigned to pick strawberries at Mountain Farm on a Tuesday, it got late and we were not finished. We were sent back to pick after dinner by the headlights of several pickup trucks. When I requested to make a phone call to the book study to tell them I wouldn't show up to conduct, I was told to forget it.

At the assembly, the dubs were urged never to submit to a boss's orders to overcharge or cheat in any way. I couldn't help but think that in almost 40 years of full time work, the only one who asked me to do something dishonest was my Bethel overseer (i.e. to hide several gallons of paint thinner which were over the allowed limit as a city inspectore was one his way to the shop). My roomate, who worked as a plumber, was once assigned as a lookout while others finished unlicensed plumbing work in the Greenpoint Avenue Assembly Hall.

Of course, I still have many pleasant memories of the place, mostly of the comraderie and mutual commiserations of friends I made, many of whom turned out to be friends for life -- some still there, others out, loyal JW and ex-JW alike -- and for some of the dear, sincere older members of the family, now all gone.

But I must say that it's rare for anyone to go through the Bethel experience and come out with his/her idealism intact.

Thanks for listening (reading), whatever....

Seeker4

G-jobs. I think it was Walden Chin - who eventually became a CO and DO - who used to G-job "special" Bibles for us when he was at Bethel. We'd get them bound with the Make Sure (later Reasoning) book, with a leather cover and our names embossed on the cover. I'm pretty sure Walden was doing this right at Bethel.

Walden was one of those cynical, wise-cracking Bethelites who would come to local congregations, drink the free liquor, pinch the single sisters on the bottom, joke about how the LAST thing anyone wanted to do at a get-together was sing Kingdom songs, yet went on to a "career" as a self-righteous traveling bro.

Wesley Benner was an old CO of mine. If I remember him correctly, he was kind of a small guy with a huge wife. I was not surprised to read in CofC that Wesley was the CO assigned to do in Ray Franz. A good company man.

S4

wschroeder

Room 215 says: "Here are some of my recollections of Bethel, circa 1966-67: ... But I must say that it's rare for anyone to go through the Bethel experience and come out with his/her idealism intact."

I think that sums it up pretty well. I would say that nobody goes through Bethel with their initial idealism intact. Most of us never could have anticipated sharing absolutely every part of our daily life with 2000 others literally shoulder to shoulder. You knew the newboys right away as they spoke of righteousness and smiled a lot.

Only George Ganges and Karl Klein were able to maintain idealism for all their years of service... and both were totally retarded.

Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

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