The USA is not a Republic Any Longer (page 2)

BurnTheShips

The 13th amendment allows voluntary servitude since it is not explicitly disallowed. We are all voluntary 14th amendment citizens.

Either I don't see an issue or I need you to spell it out for me.

BTS

ibme

If one Google "USA Republic" one gets, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States, as one choice.

Because prior to the 13th and 14th amendments no natural born citizen was a US citizen. They were citizens of the state in which they were born. Now no one is a citizen of the state of their birth. Rather they are a resident which is something completely different than the pre-war government.

I am sorry you are right. I got antsy and miss spoke when I agreed that the US is not a republic. It is not the same form of government it was in the beginning. It no longer acts as a federation of states because no one is a citizen of the state they were born in.

BurnTheShips

Because prior to the 13th and 14th amendments no natural born citizen was a US citizen. They were citizens of the state in which they were born. Now no one is a citizen of the state of their birth. Rather they are a resident which is something completely different than the pre-war government.

I see! If you have good info on this subject please PM me. It interests me.

Thanks,

Burn

IP_SEC

Sure, gimme some time to find my old research on it. Im sure I have it backed up to my USB external somewhere.

Forscher

sadly enough I have to agree with folks on thew effect of the 13th and 14th anmendment destroying the republic.

All that followed, amending the constitution to allow income taxes, the expansion of the federal government at the expense of the states and the people by liberals during the administrations of Roosevelt and LBJ, and the expansion of the federal power under the neo-cons of the Bush administration who are following the example set by Roosevelt after all, are arguably inevitable results of those amendments. That the 14th amendment commendably forced the states to follow the Bill of Rights is more than offset by the ill effects which resulted. I guess it is just proof of the old saying that "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Forscher

kurtbethel

IP_SEC and BTS: My inquiries into this matter led down many different roads with several theories. There are the people who claim to be state Citizens and retain all the rights of that status. Some people claim rights and do not waive them as per the Uniform Commercial Code. Then there are those of the redemption movement who maintain they are John Smith, and not JOHN SMITH, who they consider to be a legal fiction.

Those are all interesting theories, with some merit. But at the end of the day, what really counts is what actually happens in the real world. Your rights are what a cop on the beat says they are. Here we are in Checkpoint Nation with Drug War 4, or 5, depending on how you count, Terror War 1, and a constant encroaching on your freedom. Now you can be tortured upon arrest or detainment, and it is legal. Your torturers can taze you as punishment for any perceived infraction and they will not be punished. Goons can kick in your door, no knock, no warrant, and have no punishment. You can be spied upon by your ISP or phone company, and the maggot occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. and the Goatse congress are about to sign off on them getting amnesty for this intrusion. Your paycheck has been raped away from you. It buys far less of everything and most of you are not getting more pay, so you work more and get less value for your labor. You can call this corporate plantation whatever you want, and there may even be a document that calls it a "Republic" but you will likely find more accurate adjectives to describe it than the official version. Face it, we were lied to about this.

Forscher

Now kurtbethel,

That is about the most realistic statement I've seen voiced on this forum by anybody in quite a while. I hope you will agree, though, that your statement doesn't really mean that honest debate on the subject is completely irrelevant. It is only through debate that valid need for changes can be realized and refined. that, hopefully, is how things come to our attention and a consensus on good policy can be determined and policies changed. That is how things are supposed to work.

Things don't work when the process is screwed with and some are not allowed input. Unfortunately there are folks determined to deny those they don't agree with their right to speak to matters. A prime example of that is the law recently adopted in Colorado making criticism of a favored left-wing view a crime.

Forscher

DubNoMo

A prime example of that is the law recently adopted in Colorado making criticism of a favored left-wing view a crime.

What law is that?

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Stay alive 'til '75! ... ok, did that, now what?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fADhrAWTvuE

DubNoMo

Oops. Guess this nOOb done screwed up. Meant only to post the YouTube link, not the video.

The USA is not a Republic Any Longer

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