by OneFootIn 23 Replies latest jw friends
You're so right with what you say about fear. That is without doubt the root of the unwillingness to talk in most people. Its also very hard to do much about it because I can't offer them an alternative and then they switch off as they would rather hold on to a wrong but comforting idea rather than have nothing.
People like to think they are open-minded but this is often not true, esp with JWs.
Hi Megs,
I've got and read CoC and just ordered Christian Freedom. That was definitely my turning point as I could relate to the struggle that Ray went thru. There is no way i could loan that book to anyone or even let then know I have it but I do try to drop the relevant points in to conversations when I can.
Here's some helpful books:
How to Rescue Your Loved One from the Watchtower by David Reed.
Combatting Cult Mind Control and Releasing the Bonds by Steve Hassan.
(My personal recommendations)
Captives of a Concept by Don Cameron
Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz
(Everybody's favorite)
No hardfast rules for each individual. I read those books and my wife and
mother are still JW's. I am working on it. Educate yourself and try different
avenues. I also enjoy the short lessons at jwfacts.com. I use info. on WTS
to discuss things with my wife. I have to sneak it in, or keep it short or she
stops listening.
Hi V,
I love those WT comments clips and have watched all of them a few times over. Well done! They really hit home. Watching them really helped me to see how phony the society is and how hypocritical also. But I have to admit, i felt very guilty initially and was sure I'd get caught looking. How do we know that the WT library CD doesn't have spy ware on it and report every page I visit back to the GB? Talk about paranoia!
The alternative for many non-JW Christians is a loving God who promises us salvation through faith alone. Whether or not you believe that is a different thing, but it is something to consider... Most Christians believe that salvation is not attained through works but faith that Jesus died to save sinners. That's a fundamental departure from the JW's belief in going door-to-door. Also, most (notice I don't say all) Christians believe that there is life AFTER death, but you still have to follow through with the whole life thing. That can be liberating, because you're not always looking over your shoulder for Armageddon...
Who is David Reed? I've not heard of that book at all.
What kinds of things do they suggest in those books? I've got Crisis. I've read a lot of the JWFacts website and the FactNet website too. Very interesting but any JW I've shared stuff with won't let it in to their minds. Everything I say is answered with "Yeah but..."
After a peroid of about 8-months, my wife came out of the organization.
I do not believe there was any argument that helped me get her out. What I made sure to do was create an open atmosphere in which she felt comfortable talking about anything. There was also a good many months we were both attending meetings. I would direct some criticism on the Elders and local needs parts. Because the local congregation was full of depressed and sad people, I was able to use it as a starting point for talking about how the leadership was out of touch. This helped her open up and vocalize some criticism of the organization. The point was that I never simply yelled "it's not the truth, here is why..."
To many people try to argue their friends and family out of the Watchtower. Ain't gonna happen. Rather cultivate an open and honest relationship by which you allow a person to vocalize the doubts they probably already have. The hard part is this sometimes takes many months, something that some are not patient enough to deal with.
There isn't much you can do because of two basic JW reactions:
1. The prepared response. The Watchtower has prepared JWs for many things and they have canned responses. It doesn't matter if they believe the canned response or not. They might not even be able to explain it in detail. They have been programmed with the response and that is all that matters.
2. The shut down. Sometimes the JW doesn't have a response. Then they literally shut down and turn themselves off. They will not respond nor will they think any further on the subject themselves.
In my experience, the one thing that shakes their faith is that they are witness to something or read something that ignites a spark. But, as many said, the spark has to come from the inside. You can't ignite the spark from the outside due to all of the defense mechanisms that are in place.
er
People like to think they are open-minded but this is often not true, esp. with JWs.
How true that is. When I realized the WTS was very wrong, I left. One day my Daughter calls and tells me, the Elders are coming to talk with me and she says,"Please have an open mind and listen to them." I told her, "If they will have an open-mind and listen to me, I will listen to them." Well they came out and when they got backed in a corner, they would change the subject. They didn't care what my problem was. But they went to my Daughter and said that I never gave them a chance to talk. I tried to tell her they lied but she believes them. I even ask my Daughter if she would discuss a certain thing with me but she said."No, It's too frustrating talking about the Bible." Guess she will always stay in and I know there are others who feel bad for raising their kids in that cult and you feel so helpless because there is nothing you can do. They will have to see it their self.
I left in 83. And my wife left in about 95, following my fine example. If you have a child trapped in the tower, I can see trying to rescue them. But just to get people out, to me is as screwed up as being a witness. In my recovery process from being a witness I learned I dont controll people places or things. The onlly thing I control is myself. And I have a hard time with that. If a person goes from knocking on doors and recruiting people into the ark and then has a rosana ana dana moment and then trys to get them out of the ark, thats pretty wacky. But then again, maybe you believe in karma and you dont want to get wacked to hard.
