Yesterday, I went to a funeral of a long time friend of my extended family. It was a nice service that lasted about 45 minutes. There was the usual Catholic rituals and communion. The priest, perhaps in his late 30's or early 40's made the funeral very personal for this lady's family, freinds, and fellow Catholics. It was a very upbeat service. I had not been to a Catholic funeral in almost 25 years. I found the most interesting thing the priest said was that we are all "surrounded by God's invisible Kingdom." I did not know that Catholic's hold in common with the JW's, the invisible kingdom belief.....perhaps a little different belief on the kingdom held by the JW's but none the less "invisible" Are there any Catholic's or former Catholic's on this board that tell us a little bit more about the Catholic's invisible kingdom?
Went to Catholic funeral yesterday- "The Invisible Kingdom"
by Thechickennest 14 Replies latest jw experiences
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lancelink
I was one for 20 years, and am now seriously considering going back after years and years as a JW.
If I remember correctly, the "Invisible kingdom" was something that is within a persons heart.
I just did some searching and found this statement :
When the Pharisees inquired about the Kingdom of God, Jesus said that the Kingdom of God is not something that can be observed; nor will they say, "Look here it is!" or "There it is!" For in fact, the Kingdom of God is among you. [Lk. 17:20-1] [Note: Some Bible translations say "within you."
When questioned by Pilate as to where His Kingdom was, Jesus said, "My Kingdom is not from this world. If My Kingdom were from this world, My followers would be fighting to keep Me from being handed over to the Jews. But as it is, My Kingdom is not from here." [Jn. 18:36]
It is very important for Christians to realize from the two previous passages that the Kingdom of God is not physical in nature. It is an invisible, spiritual Kingdom, among [within] the people.
here is the site if you need some more information,
http://www.catholicdoors.com/homilies/kingdom.htm -
cathyk
Catholics believe in something called thehttp://oldlighthousebooks.blogspot.com "communion of saints." Saints, in this context, means everyone who is in heaven, both those officially recognized (canonized, like St. Thomas Aquinas and the angels, etc.), and those whose names we will know only when we get there. We continue our conversation with them through prayer, and they pray to God for us.
I imagine the priest meant by the invisible kingdom the citizens of heaven, especially the angels, who are believed to be present at every Mass.
We do not believe in Christ's invisible return, but in his visible, unmistakable return at the end of time. At the same time, we believe that the Kingdom of God is among us, and has been since Jesus rose from the dead:
"Christ stands at the heart of this gathering of men into the 'family of God.' By his word, through signs that manifest the reign of God, and by sending out his disciples, Jesus calls all people to come together around him. But above all in the great Paschal mystery -- his death on the cross and his Resurrection -- he would accomplish the coming of his kingdom. 'And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.' [John 12:32] Into this union with Christ all men are called." (Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 542).
Cathy
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Thechickennest
Lance:
"Kingdom of God is not physical in nature. It is an invisible, spiritual Kingdom, among [within] the people."
Thank you for your clarification on this. If I understand this correctly-Catholic's hold the view that the Kingdom is "among" or within" us.
I have a sister that is Catholic. I have attended both of her children's weddings at Catholic churches in the last two years. I also was in attendance to my sisters Catholic wedding 30 years ago. I don't know if I am assuming too much to say that Catholic services have really mainstreamed and become way more understandable to at least non-Catholic's attenders. In contrast JW events such as funerals and weddings are very dry and canned. When I was a witness I thought the Catholic's were from the devil for sure! I have changed my mind about that...
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Thechickennest
Cathy:
Thank you for your comments. I want to share a little more with you about the Priest's illustration about the Kingdom. He said and he was speaking to the departed members family-"When ever you sat down to eat a meal together with your Mom, as a family, God's Kingdom was present with you-just like it is now here with you".
"I imagine the priest meant by the invisible kingdom the citizens of heaven, especially the angels, who are believed to be present at every Mass."
So the Kingdom presence must be among most family meals or other informal ocassions as well? Is that presence contingent on having a blessing at those times?
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cathyk
Thank you for your comments. I want to share a little more with you about the Priest's illustration about the Kingdom. He said and he was speaking to the departed members family-"When ever you sat down to eat a meal together with your Mom, as a family, God's Kingdom was present with you-just like it is now here with you".
I'm not exactly sure what he meant by this -- unless he was referring to the idea of "wherever two or more of you are gathered in [Jesus'] name" then Jesus is with them.
"I imagine the priest meant by the invisible kingdom the citizens of heaven, especially the angels, who are believed to be present at every Mass."
So the Kingdom presence must be among most family meals or other informal ocassions as well? Is that presence contingent on having a blessing at those times?
Well, again, I'm not sure if this is what the priest means, but I think it also has to do with living our faith in the world, and having those who have gone before us around us and praying for us.
Also, depending on what you're remembering, he may have been making a connection between family meals and Holy Communion.
As an aside, I love one of the prayers from the funeral service, which is said toward the end:
May the Angels lead you into paradise; may the martyrs greet you at your arrival and lead you into the holy city, Jerusalem.
May the choir of Angels greet you and like Lazarus, who once was a poor man, may you have eternal rest. AmenCathy
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StAnn
From the Catholic Encyclopedia on New Advent:
The kingdom of god means, then, the ruling of God in our hearts; it means those principles which separate us off from the kingdom of the world and the devil; it means the benign sway of grace; it means the Church as that Divine institution whereby we may make sure of attaining the spirit of Christ and so win that ultimate kingdom of God Where He reigns without end in "the holy city, the New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God" (Revelation 21:2).
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08646a.htm
Not invisible in the way the JWs mean at all; particularly since the JWs don't believe in grace.
Lance, you will be welcomed back with open arms, should you decide to come home!
StAnn
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StAnn
So the Kingdom presence must be among most family meals or other informal ocassions as well? Is that presence contingent on having a blessing at those times?
ChickenNest, God's grace is given to us at baptism, so we have the Kingdom of God within us at all times once we're baptized. Whether or not we choose to take advantage of that is our perogative.
StAnn
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StAnn
ChickenNest, here is my husband's take on the priest's comments:
The priest's comments about the Kingdom of God refer to the communion of saints. When the priest talks about the Kingdom of God, he's not talking about a ruling scheme or a political organization. The Kingdom of God is understood in much broader, general terms. It is really referring to the love of God and how the love of God is reflected in this mother's love and care for her family. This is what the martyrs found worth dying for.
For Catholics, the Kingdom of God is absolutely nothing like the JW understanding.
StAnn
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choosing life
cathyk,
That is a beautiful prayer you mention for a funeral. I don't know that much about the Catholic religion, but I used to attend midnight mass on Christmas Eve as a child. Always thought it was beautiful with the candlelight and choir singing. I believe it was in Latin however, so I didn't understand the words. The message of peace and grace still came through.