by Open mind 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
In this article, {somewhere....I can't seem to find the quote} your governing body asks you outright: "...are you wise or stupid...for [even] associating with "apostates/ opposers
Since when is "wise" the antonym of "stupid"? "Foolish", maybe. Another WT specific definition. Seemingly innocent choice of words with much deeper, darker implications.
I remember being taught as a child that the word "compromise" was a bad word. Not just religiously, but in all situations.
Scripturally?
sorry... proceed.
To add to jgnat, Jesus did associate with those who were outside of the box. Indeed, if we are Christians, we are supposed to reach out to others in example, love and fellowship. IOW, this is a case of good association and influence where Jesus' compassion and unconditional acceptance of them "as they were" made them want to change their ways and follow Him. He did not expect them to carry on and live as they did prior to His influence on them.
As for the spiritual "weight" of Paul's words in his letter as compared to Jesus, I'll have to agree with the man I saw on the History Channel's "Banned from the Bible" program: if Paul had any idea about how others would theologize his letters, he would have been more careful when he wrote them. (paraphrase).
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Here's the big Watchtower logic-leap: Anyone who does not embrace the body of Christian belief as taught by the FDS, is Bad Association. The Great Apostasy hadn't yet occured when Paul wrote to the Corinthians, but it certainly has now. So the message is clear, anyone who doesn't share our beliefs is not a good person to have as a close associate.
Maybe the big Watchtower logic-leap is that their belief in the resurrection is the same as Paul's.
John 11:25,26:
Belief in a resurrected Jesus or belief in Jesus as a resurrection?
The only way we can come to a correct understanding of any scripture is by knowing;
1) Who wrote it and when it was written
2) The context said before and after the passage, well surrounding it
3) Through reading, studying the meaning of & understanding the rest of the scriptures.
About any scripture, once it's been isolated from all the other important information in the Bible needed to be equipped to correctly understand it & know what it's full meaning for Christians today is, could be misunderstood & wrongly applied to mislead someone from it's real meaning.
First thing we need to know is: If a scripture was/is a command from God or Jesus, or if it was quoted from those sources, as something we must do? Or if it was general guidance given by someone else, maybe an apostle who was inspired by God, yet it is not a direct command (to do something or refrain from doing something) that a person MUST do in order to please God & gain everlasting life? In other words, there are a lot of scriptures that gave common sense guidance on how to deal with many new issues the early Christians were navigating. The early Christians had to decide among the different cities & congregations what their unified stance would be regarding a lot of everyday living issues they'd never had to make decisions on before Jesus had come & been resurrected. As descendants of Abraham so many of them knew & adhered to the laws their parent's had handed down to & taught them. Some Gentile members had never observed the Mosaic law or any religious beliefs. So in order to unite them better, basic principles were given by Paul and others for the new Christians to remember and keep in mind to aid them to make wise decisions for themselves in matters of living. But they were not given as commands to follow. There are differences between the commands and the guidance given. There are statements in the Bible that pagan Kings said, yet they weren't recorded as commands of God or Jesus for us.
As imperfect human beings, we're easily influenced by what or whoever we're in close association with too much. It'll influence us, even if we try hard & are determined we won't allow anything to affect us, even if we believe we're far too strong in our faith, love for God & Jesus and our family to ever allow ourselves to be influenced in negative ways, still, in weak moments, we're vulnerable. When worn down or depressed by the death of someone we love, or by being fired or facing other really hard things, that's when we're most vulnerable to failing.
Two scriptures that warn us against thinking we're immune to falling are : "Pride goeth before a fall" (Proverbs 16:18) "Let he who thinks he is standing take heed lest he fall." (1 Corinthians 10:12).
I do think there are times when the Governing Body of JW has taken guidance & turned it into hard & fast rules or commands that JW's must abide by, or where they have taken a scripture & applied it in ways it may not ever have been intended to be applied to Christians, but not with any malice or intention to deceive anyone, so much as, it's happened out of an overabundance of zeal for the moral excellence of the whole group of JW's. At times, scriptures don't necessarily spell things out nor command that a behavior is or is not practiced by a Christian, yet it made logical sense to adhere to certain restrictions. Is this right or wrong? I can't say, as they indeed do run the organization & are in place to guide & teach all & to make those decisions that aren't specifically written out exactly in the scriptures. So it has been their charge and their right to prayerfully decide on such matters, much like Paul did in his time render decisions & give guidance on matters for all the congregations, after seeking God's guidance themselves.
I will say this, though, in addition, no JW becomes one & gets baptized without already being fully aware of all that they're expected to do and not do as one of JW's. Years of Bible study and several oral tests you must pass about what they believe and adhere to, where you have to also demonstrate that you know and can find in the Bible where supporting scriptures are that tell you why they do this or that or why they do not, are part of the requirements so.... it's not as if those joining are deceived or fooled about anything they're agreeing to because the process is an involved one to actually be approved as a candidate ready to get baptized, and be a JW. They ensure you have thorough understanding so no one is duped or misled in any way.
As a principle of life it is perfectly sound , eg, how many youngsters get into trouble through bad company?
It is taken to extreme by the WT when they say that association with non believers will undermine your faith. Well , it can if they show you that you are wrong, but a real faith based on knowledge and sound arguments will not be easily affected.
Welcome Kathy hussey
,I hope you stick around ,I liked your first post ,not that I`m in agreement with it but that`s what you can do here and not what you can do in the WT/JW religion without repercussions.
no JW becomes one & gets baptized without already being fully aware of all that they're expected to do and not do as one of JW's.
True ,the interpretation JW`s have given to the person studying based on the Watchtower and not the Bible ,sure they use the Bible but its to give the WT `s interpretation of what the scriptures mean.
it's not as if those joining are deceived or fooled about anything they're agreeing to because the process is an involved one to actually be approved as a candidate ready to get baptized, and be a JW.
The majority of people on this board would have real reason to dispute that statement as would anybody who has left the religion after being in it for many years ,myself 32 years.
They ensure you have thorough understanding so no one is duped or misled in any way.
They ensure you have a thorough understanding of what the GB/WT understanding of Jehovah`s Witness teachings are but that`s not what the Bible teaches .
Do your research on 607-1914 ,the generation that would not pass away .1914 when Armageddon was first supposed to happen.1925 when all the faithful were to be resurrected and live and be Princes , at Beth Sarim where "Judge Ruthered lived.1975 when Armageddon was supposed to occur,after 6000 years of human existence on this earth.
The ludicrous explanation of their failed doctrine" the generation that would not pass away since 1914" to be an overlapping generation ? ,come on ,their really scraping the barrel with that one.
how gullible can one get.!
All the flip flops of doctrine , beliefs ,and practices over the years,and continually revising their own history.
And to answer the OP Q? I would say yes bad associations can spoil useful habits ,I have no problem with that statement.
Take care.
Isn`t that statement "Bad associations spoil useful habits " just plain common sense ?
Any Tom Dick or Harry could have told us that.
It`s not as if it`s a GOD inspired thought .
Isn`t that statement "Bad associations spoil useful habits " just plain common sense ?
Yep. As someone on the first page of this topic pointed out, it's the equivalent of the saying "if you lie down with dogs, you'll wake up with fleas." There are probably a hundred other ways people make that point.
The WTS takes it further, of course. Any association that isn't a JW in good standing is a "bad association" who can spoil useful habits, such as going to all of the meetings, going door-to-door, annoying everyone around you by constantly preaching, shunning disfellowshipped family and friends, and so on. Hang around the wrong people long enough, and you'll lose yourself to Satan. Next thing you know, you've grown a beard!
The Jobots just mean that you should only hang around with Jobots in 'good standing(tm) and no one else.
They don't really care a bout the real meaning.
