I agree. Megs said the same thing in the first post.
I guess I should read the posts more often, I'm lazy some times.
Good vs Evil.....does the existence of God prove the existence of Satan?
by wings 35 Replies latest jw friends
-
Anti-Christ
-
wings
"I guess I should read the posts more often, I'm lazy some times."
you are not alone....especially on a Sunday.... -
flipper
WINGS- I guess after being out of the witness organization for 5 years now - I don't believe in such a entity as Satan, or I kind of doubt in God's existence as well . I'm a definite agnostic, perhaps leaning atheist. I think environment that people are raised around and the conditioning of the mind people receive from growing up around certain negative conditions in a " evil " environment can play into eventually what kind of a person someone grows into as an adult. But my take is we can all control our destiny by the decisions we each make - good decisions or bad decisions. We are the ones who decide what the future is going to be individually, good or bad
-
changeling
For me they go hand in hand. And as I've mentioned on here before, when I lost my belief in God I also, w/o realizing it, lost my fear of demons and the nightmares I used to have. So, as far as I'm concerned, it's ALL a bunch of hooey.
changeling :)
-
Terry
The Garden of Eden story gives us the introduction of man and wrong choice leading to consequence. The serpent sets the choice in motion.
Now, stop and ask yourself why the ENTIRE OLD TESTAMENT never mentions the serpent again! Nada. Nothing.
Why?
The Garden of Eden story was, to the Jews, just that. It was a "just so" story like Rudyard Kipling would tell.
It was a metaphor "explaining" why man was in the state he was in vis a vis God.
When the Jews experienced the Babylonian transplantation their self-mythology confronted a different culture and a differing world view.
Those who returned to rebuild Jerusalem were not the same people who were exiled. Not psychologically. Those people had their consciousness transformed by the Babylonian richness of myth once and for all.
The one two punch that shattered Judaim irrevocably was Babylonian and Greek. Alexander bein the second blow.
By the time Jesus and subsequent Christianity came along, Judaism had become so Greek (on top of the Babylonian mindset) they could hardly even read Hebrew (the language of God) any longer.
It had become necessary to translate the Holy Scriptures into Greek (Septuagint).
It is at this point we can determine how far into the culture of Judaism the Good vs Evil of God and devils had sunk.
Pagan ideation of the mythos which produced the world allowed for gods and monsters. The Jews found this inescapable as well.
The New Testament is rife with demon possession, Satanic dialogues and machinations, miracles and demi-god wonder working.
The "existence" of Evil had been conceptualized in a Pagan manner. So too Jesus as the demi-god messiah.
There is no "proof" of Evil, Satan, God or such because the strength of those concepts are only as good as the ostensible corroborations.
Christians can only point to words on a page. Jews, largely, have grown up about their myths and now thrive in a practical realization that their "HISTORY" is steeped in metaphor.
When good men fail to act, the resulting vacuum creates the climate in which evil dwells.
-
wings
When good men fail to act, the resulting vacuum creates the climate in which evil dwells.
Terry, I understand this. What about the idea that good and evil and co-exist within every one of us, and there are no "good men". I am speaking individually of course. Like Gopher said. When there is a group acting on good or evil it can seem like more of a force that the numbers of individuals involved. But if you take it down to an individual's course, "goodness" could just be defined as the net effect of choices made in a lifetime. Good and evil.
My thought on this would be....does it take the duality of these qualities to bring about either. So we need a little evil in us to produce good. Just a thought.
wings -
Eliveleth
Another question would be...."is evil always bad?"....or...."is good always good?" To not think in absolutes puts an entirely different spin on reality, for me anyway.
An ancient Chinese Story
In ancient China, there was a very poor, old man. He had one son and the only possession he had of any value was a horse.
One day the horse ran away and the neighbors came to comfort him. How sad that your only horse is gone.
Maybe its bad and maybe its good, he said.
After several days, his horse returned with a great number of mares.
His neighbors came to rejoice with him. They said "How good it is. Now you have a whole herd of horses.
Maybe its good and maybe its bad, he said.
While his son was breaking one of the wild horses, he fell of and broke his leg.
His neighbors said: "What a terrible thing this is. Now your son cannot break all the horses.
Maybe its bad and maybe its good, he said.
Then a warlord came through the land, recruiting able-bodied men to be inducted into his army and the son could not be taken because of his broken leg.
You never know how events in your life will turn out, but God does and He makes everything, even those things that seem bad, work for our good. Romans 8:28
I think that if we can accept things that happen without judging if they are "good or evil" and learn from them, we will be better off as it frees our minds to accept our lives as they are and not labelling events. We cannot change the past.
-
mkr32208
Socrates had an interesting take on evil. He said no one intentionally does evil, often we judge others as evil through the prospective of time or our own standards and say that someone is doing evil. However to THEM they are not evil they are doing right.
A perfect example is Hitler. We consider Hitler to be an evil man, but would Hitler have considered himself to be evil? He genuinely thought that he was doing the right thing for his people and his county! He would never have thought he was evil,
-
Homerovah the Almighty
Who’s The Real Evil Force?
Filed Under (Deep Thoughts) by Ian on 04-04-2007
So, if we were to look at the bible and remove the names “God” and “Satan” and replace them with “A” and “B” (respectively) then try to pipoint which is the evil one.. which do you suppose we’d choose?
I’m always amazed how people declare God to be this perfect and good being that’s always looking out for us, considering all the people he’s slaughtered. Possibly, more importantly, how many people have killed in his name due to their ‘beliefs’ in him.If you look at this particular graph it makes things interesting when you talk about good verse evil
Isn't god wonderful, definitely a true god of love and understanding
-
oompa
homer...what is the source for the chart?...thanks.......oompa.........so hope it is legit
