TRY THIS SCENARIO FOR "THIS GENERATION"

by Bill Parker 17 Replies latest jw friends

TD

I usually regret donning the cap of millennialism even for the sake of conversation. Curiosity and a few glasses of wine have gotten the better of me tonight though and I’m going to go ahead and ask some of the things that came to mind while reading your post.
Fig Trees:
1. In regard to Matthew 24:32, Mark 13:28 & Luke 21:29, did Jesus actually mention the fruit of the tree at all, or is this your own contrivance?
2. In stating “There is needed yet a little time until the fruit can be eaten and summer is here in all its glory” you seem to attach a certain degree of importance to a protracted ripening period for the fruit. I’ve raised fig trees for years in a climate virtually identical to that of Palestine. In that type of climate, a mature tree will produce fruit in two crops, the first well before summer, usually around mid spring. Consequently, how can any special importance be attached to the ripening of the fruit?
Terms:
1. What is the basis for your definition of the term “generation”?
2. What to you understand the term “pass away” to mean?
3. If you substitute your term definitions for #1 and #2 above in lieu of the terms themselves as they appear in Matthew 24:34, do you still have a coherent sentence? Can you demonstrate?
Bill Parker

T.D.
The illustration about the fig tree was not of my own invention. It was a parable given by Jesus to serve as a comparison. I could have used any tree it wouldn't have really mattered. Luke sets it forth nicely at chapter 21: 29-31. And He told them a parable: "Look at the fig tree AND ALL THE OTHER TREES; When they put forth their buds and come out in leaf, you see for yourself and perceive and know that summer is already near. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the message Jesus was conveying by using that parable. He was telling us to view all of the signs of His coming in the same way we that we view the approach of summer.In early spring we do not conclude that summer is here yet.We observe the trees budding first and then not too long afterward summer finaly arrives and they come out in "full leaf." With that thought in mind read verse 31. Even so, when you see these things taking place,understand and know that the Kingdom of God is at hand." Summer is not here yet is it? All of the sign is not clearly evident yet is it? All of the trees are not in "full bloom" as it were.That means then that He had to be talking about the generation of people alive all over the earth right now.He could not have been talking about the generation of 1914 because the generation of people living at that time only saw "The beginning of pangs of distress."The sign was to come like "labor pains on a pregnant woman."
That child has not arrived as yet. The labor pains continue. I thought that I made very clear in my article why I believed we are the generation Jesus was discussing. This idea did not come from my own imagination. It came from the scriptures. IT was those living at the conclusion of the system of things, {the harvest season} when the crops are brought in that would finally see all of the sign fulfilled. Now if my reasoning is not correct please use your Bible to set me straight. If you can do that I would appreciate it very much. I am only concerned with understanding the Bible correctly. "One man sharpens the face of another" I do not have all knowledge.1 Corinthians 8:2 Others have much more than I. When someone sets me straight using the Bible I am the one who benefits from that because it sharpens and hones the knowledge I already possess.
TD

Bill,

The illustration about the fig tree was not of my own invention. It was a parable given by Jesus to serve as a comparison.
That is understood. My question had to do with the difference between the foliage of the tree and its fruit. You have made much about the necessity of waiting until the fruit of the fig tree is fully ripe. I simply do not recognize this metaphor. Is it one that Jesus actually used?
That child has not arrived as yet. The labor pains continue. I thought that I made very clear in my article why I believed we are the generation Jesus was discussing. This idea did not come from my own imagination. It came from the scriptures. IT was those living at the conclusion of the system of things, {the harvest season} when the crops are brought in that would finally see all of the sign fulfilled. Now if my reasoning is not correct please use your Bible to set me straight.
Fair enough. I'll be glad to discuss it further once I fully understand what you have written thus far. How do you define the term “pass away?” What does it mean for "this generation" to "pass away?"
Bill Parker

Hi T.D.
"Pass Away" I believe in this instance since Jesus said: "they will not" means that many of that generation will still be alive at His coming. True people are dying every day now and just how many would be left is anybody's guess. My understanding of that is that not all alive right now will die off. If we are really in the time of the harvest now and facing the conclusion of the system of things, then doesn't that of necessity mean that this is the generation Jesus was making reference to? Since the entire sign was to be in evidence at that time. Of course if we are really not in the time of the harvest and the end of the system of things is not upon us then my reasoning cannot be correct. If it isn't I would really like to see a scriptural discussion that explains fully exactly what Jesus was talking about. I cut and pasted some information froms Srong's Coconcordance for you to look at on the term pass away. Bill
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More Search Tools!! Lexicon for Strong's Number 3928 Go to Gen 1:1
3928 parerchomai {par-er'-khom-ahee}
from 3844 and 2064; TDNT - 2:681,257; v
AV - pass away 12, pass 10, pass by 3, pass over 1, transgress 1,
past 1, go 1, come forth 1, come 1; 31
1) to go past, pass by
1a) of persons moving forward
1a1) to pass by
1b) of time
1b1) an act continuing for a time
1c) metaph.
1c1) to pass away, perish
1c2) to pass by (pass over), that is, to neglect, omit,
(transgress)
1c3) to be led by, to be carried past, be averted
2) to come near, come forward, arrive
About Strongs Concordance for Strongs Number 3928 Go to Gen 1:1
There are 38 instances of verses containing Strong's number 3928. Page 1, verses 1 - 25.
Mat 5:18 For [1063] verily [281] I say [3004] (5719) unto you [5213], Till [2193] [302] heaven [3772] and [2532] earth [1093] pass [3928] (5632), one [1520] jot [2503] or [2228] one [3391] tittle [2762] shall in no wise [3364] pass [3928] (5632) from [575] the law [3551], till [2193] [302] all [3956] be fulfilled [1096] (5638).
Mat 5:18 For [1063] verily [281] I say [3004] (5719) unto you [5213], Till [2193] [302] heaven [3772] and [2532] earth [1093] pass [3928] (5632), one [1520] jot [2503] or [2228] one [3391] tittle [2762] shall in no wise [3364] pass [3928] (5632) from [575] the law [3551], till [2193] [302] all [3956] be fulfilled [1096] (5638).
Mat 8:28 And [2532] when he [846] was come [2064] (5631) to [1519] the other side [4008] into [1519] the country [5561] of the Gergesenes [1086], there met [5221] (5656) him [846] two [1417] possessed with devils [1139] (5740), coming [1831] (5740) out of [1537] the tombs [3419], exceeding [3029] fierce [5467], so that [5620] no [3361] man [5100] might [2480] (5721) pass [3928] (5629) by [1223] that [1565] way [3598].
Mat 14:15 And [1161] when it was [1096] (5637) evening [3798], his [846] disciples [3101] came [4334] (5656) to him [846], saying [3004] (5723), This is [2076] (5748) a desert [2048] place [5117], and [2532] the time [5610] is now [2235] past [3928] (5627); send [630] [0] the multitude [3793] away [630] (5657), that [2443] they may go [565] (5631) into [1519] the villages [2968], and buy [59] (5661) themselves [1438] victuals [1033].
Mat 24:34 Verily [281] I say [3004] (5719) unto you [5213], This [3778] generation [1074] shall not [3364] pass [3928] (5632), till [302] [2193] all [3956] these things [5023] be fulfilled [1096] (5638).
Mat 24:35 Heaven [3772] and [2532] earth [1093] shall pass away [3928] (5695), but [1161] my [3450] words [3056] shall [3928] [0] not [3364] pass away [3928] (5632).
Mat 24:35 Heaven [3772] and [2532] earth [1093] shall pass away [3928] (5695), but [1161] my [3450] words [3056] shall [3928] [0] not [3364] pass away [3928] (5632).
Mat 24:35 Heaven [3772] and [2532] earth [1093] shall pass away [3928] (5695), but [1161] my [3450] words [3056] shall [3928] [0] not [3364] pass away [3928] (5632).
Mat 26:39 And [2532] he went [4281] [0] a little [3397] further [4281] (5631), and fell [4098] (5627) on [1909] his [846] face [4383], and [2532] prayed [4336] (5740), saying [3004] (5723), O my [3450] Father [3962], if [1487] it be [2076] (5748) possible [1415], let [3928] [0] this [5124] cup [4221] pass [3928] (5628) from [575] me [1700]: nevertheless [4133] not [3756] as [5613] I [1473] will [2309] (5719), but [235] as [5613] thou [4771] [wilt].
Mat 26:39 And [2532] he went [4281] [0] a little [3397] further [4281] (5631), and fell [4098] (5627) on [1909] his [846] face [4383], and [2532] prayed [4336] (5740), saying [3004] (5723), O my [3450] Father [3962], if [1487] it be [2076] (5748) possible [1415], let [3928] [0] this [5124] cup [4221] pass [3928] (5628) from [575] me [1700]: nevertheless [4133] not [3756] as [5613] I [1473] will [2309] (5719), but [235] as [5613] thou [4771] [wilt].
Mat 26:42 He went away [565] (5631) again [3825] the [1537] second time [1208], and prayed [4336] (5662), saying [3004] (5723), O my [3450] Father [3962], if [1487] this [5124] cup [4221] may [1410] (5736) not [3756] pass away [3928] (5629) from [575] me [1700], except [3362] I drink [4095] (5632) it [846], thy [4675] will [2307] be done [1096] (5676).
Mar 6:48 And [2532] he saw [1492] (5627) them [846] toiling [928] (5746) in [1722] rowing [1643] (5721); for [1063] the wind [417] was [2258] (5713) contrary [1727] unto them [846]: and [2532] about [4012] the fourth [5067] watch [5438] of the night [3571] he cometh [2064] (5736) unto [4314] them [846], walking [4043] (5723) upon [1909] the sea [2281], and [2532] would [2309] (5707) have passed by [3928] (5629) them [846].
Mar 13:30 Verily [281] I say [3004] (5719) unto you [5213], that [3754] this [3778] generation [1074] shall [3928] [0] not [3364] pass [3928] (5632), till [3360] [3739] all [3956] these things [5023] be done [1096] (5638).
Mar 13:30 Verily [281] I say [3004] (5719) unto you [5213], that [3754] this [3778] generation [1074] shall [3928] [0] not [3364] pass [3928] (5632), till [3360] [3739] all [3956] these things [5023] be done [1096] (5638).
Mar 13:31 Heaven [3772] and [2532] earth [1093] shall pass away [3928] (5695): but [1161] my [3450] words [3056] shall [3928] [0] not [3364] pass away [3928] (5632).
Mar 13:31 Heaven [3772] and [2532] earth [1093] shall pass away [3928] (5695): but [1161] my [3450] words [3056] shall [3928] [0] not [3364] pass away [3928] (5632).
Mar 13:31 Heaven [3772] and [2532] earth [1093] shall pass away [3928] (5695): but [1161] my [3450] words [3056] shall [3928] [0] not [3364] pass away [3928] (5632).
Mar 14:35 And [2532] he went forward [4281] (5631) a little [3397], and fell [4098] (5627) on [1909] the ground [1093], and [2532] prayed [4336] (5711) that [2443], if [1487] it were [2076] (5748) possible [1415], the hour [5610] might pass [3928] (5632) from [575] him [846].
Luk 11:42 But [235] woe [3759] unto you [5213], Pharisees [5330]! for [3754] ye tithe [586] (5719) mint [2238] and [2532] rue [4076] and [2532] all manner [3956] of herbs [3001], and [2532] pass over [3928] (5736) judgment [2920] and [2532] the love [26] of God [2316]: these [5023] ought ye [1163] (5713) to have done [4160] (5658), and not [3361] to leave [863] [0] the other [2548] undone [863] (5721).
Luk 12:37 Blessed [3107] [are] those [1565] servants [1401], whom [3739] the lord [2962] when he cometh [2064] (5631) shall find [2147] (5692) watching [1127] (5723): verily [281] I say [3004] (5719) unto you [5213], that [3754] he shall gird himself [4024] (5698), and [2532] make [347] [0] them [846] to sit down to meat [347] (5692), and [2532] will come forth [3928] (5631) and serve [1247] (5692) them [846].
Luk 15:29 And [1161] he answering [611] (5679) said [2036] (5627) to [his] father [3962], Lo [2400] (5628), these many [5118] years [2094] do I serve [1398] (5719) thee [4671], neither [3763] [0] transgressed I [3928] (5627) at any time [3763] thy [4675] commandment [1785]: and [2532] yet [2532] thou [1325] [0] never [3763] gavest [1325] (5656) me [1698] a kid [2056], that [2443] I might make merry [2165] (5686) with [3326] my [3450] friends [5384]:
Luk 16:17 And [1161] it is [2076] (5748) easier [2123] for heaven [3772] and [2532] earth [1093] to pass [3928] (5629), than [2228] one [3391] tittle [2762] of the law [3551] to fail [4098] (5629).
Luk 17:7 But [1161] which [5101] of [1537] you [5216], having [2192] (5723) a servant [1401] plowing [722] (5723) or [2228] feeding cattle [4165] (5723), will say [2046] (5692) unto him [3739] by and by [2112], when he is come [1525] (5631) from [1537] the field [68], Go [3928] (5631) and sit down to meat [377] (5669)?
Luk 18:37 And [1161] they told [518] (5656) him [846], that [3754] Jesus [2424] of Nazareth [3480] passeth by [3928] (5736).
Luk 21:32 Verily [281] I say [3004] (5719) unto you [5213], [3754] This [3778] generation [1074] shall [3928] [0] not [3364] pass away [3928] (5632), [302] till [2193] all [3956] be fulfilled [1096] (5638).
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1 (Mat 5:18 - Luk 21:32) 2 (Luk 21:32 - Rev 21:1)
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1769 King James Authorized Version
with
Wigram's Englishman's Hebrew and Chaldee Concordance (1843/1890)
Wigram's Englishman's Greek Concordance (1839/1903)
identified using
James Strong's numbers (1890)
Corrections to Strong's numbers copyright by others

"George Wigram's Englishman's Greek and Hebrew Concordances were produced in 1839 and 43 respectively and contain a complete listing of all occurrences of each unique Greek and Hebrew word in the New and Old Testaments. It was not until fifty years later that James Strong assigned numbers to each unique word in the Old and New Testaments and produced a dictionary listing each word with its number. This electronic text combines Wigram's identification (of each unique word's occurrence) and Strong's numbering system, using Strong's numbers to mark each location where Wigram identified a particular word. The result is a 100% accurate Strong's Concordance imbedded within the KJV." Courtesy of the good folks at Online Bible (Used with Permission).
1006868925
1006868925
Bill Parker

Hi again T.D.
I forgot to mention the point that you made about the fruit. We both know that Jesus gave those illustration for good reason. The one about the "fig tree" would really impress the point He was making to someone very familiar with tree's. Such as yourself. A farmer would know when that fruit was ready for picking would'nt he? As you said there would be two crops of fruit from the fig tree. You added to my small fund of knowledge. I didn't know that! When this farmer reached up to test a little of the fruits of his labor he would know by biting into it that it was fully ripe wouldn't he? When he bit into that ripe fruit he would know for sure that summer is really here. Correspondingly Jesus said when you see ALL the trees in full bloom "The KIngdom of God is near" Bill Parker
TD

Bill,
….means that many of that generation will still be alive at His coming…. My understanding of that is that not all alive right now will die off.

Just to make sure I understand, “pass away” basically means to die of old age and Jesus was stating that this eventuality would not come to pass in regard to “this generation.” In other words, some of the generation that witnessed the full and complete manifestation of the sign will still be alive at his “coming.” Is this correct?
Bill Parker

T.D.
If you think about it the way things are going on this planet right now it could possibly be all wiped out by Nuclear or Biological warefare at any time now. Where that to happen this entire plannet would be a burned out cinder. Wouldn't it? The Generation of people living would all be gone wouldn't they? If there were any survivors they would sure be wishing that they wern't. I know I would! I think that Jesus meant that it would not be allowed to contiue. It would be "cut short". So He could have meant not "pass away" in death as individuals are doing every day. It also could have been a reference to being "CUT SHORT? by divine intervention could't it? Bill
TD

Bill,
The terms Jesus used at Matthew 24:34 could conceivably have meant a number of different things and I don’t mean to suggest that what you have written here is necessarily right or wrong. I think the pitfall, if there is one, lies in deviating too far from what simple rules of grammar and logic dictate that Jesus’ statement meant in the context of the disciple’s interrogatory.
....but don't let a skeptic like me spoil your fun.
Take care,
Tom

TRY THIS SCENARIO FOR "THIS GENERATION"

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