Reflections on the assembly - please help!!!!

by insearchoftruth 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  VoidEater

  she wants to read the bible and learn how to understand it.

  Well, there's the rub...the dubs insist the only way to *understand* the Bible is with their publications.

  Without their publications, you cannot determine the year 1914 (you need to reference something outside of the Bible to base your starting date on).

  Without their publications, you would not pick one parable out of the many Jesus gave to turn into a prophecy, and invent different classes of Christians with different rlationships to Jesus and God, and different future hopes based on that.

  Without their publications, you can't support the investure of power into a Governing Body.

  Without these WTS fundamentals, you would not be able to believe that the WTS is God's one true organization, that Christ only speaks to a FDS, or that a GB had the authority to establish interpretation of scripture.
• 

  M.J.

  Just one small point:
  
  The WT continually makes the point that the present time since 1914 is the most devastating time in history, pointing to wars, disease, famine, etc.
  
  But the following attests otherwise (see table labeled "Timeline For Humans"):
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy
  
  Life expectancy is shooting way up, and exploding particularly in the 20th century-today.
  
  This flat-out contradicts the assertion that this is the most devastating time in human history.
  
  
  Another set of data that is interesting is
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Population_curve.svg
  
  The above graph shows an incredible population explosion in the 20th century.
  
  Point out that population growth = Birth rate - death rate.
  
  So in order for this to happen, either the birth rate skyrocketed in relation to the death rate or the death rate plummeted in relation to the birth rate.
  
  If the birth rate skyrocketed without much decrease in the death rate, then while population goes up, average life expectancy plummets. So it would have to be the latter.
  
  Of course you and I are numbers kind of guys...so all this may sound better to us than to our wives...
• 

  insearchoftruth

  Thanks all, one more thing, the main stage was set up directly below a huge American flag, sort of ironic!
• 

  Kosonen

  You can pick up scriptural arguments from my page www.freewebs.com/scripturalanswers on subjects as education, money and more.
• 

  lancelink

  "Few, very few, JWs know that the founder, Russell, believed that God resided in the Pleiades star system."
  
  wow, I never heard that one, I have to research this !
  
  I'm doing an edit here, and here are some facts.
  
  http://www.freewebs.com/wwwsoundnessofmindcom/charlestazerussell.htm
• 

  BluesBrother

  yesss ! Go for the study of the Bible only...Perhaps a careful reading of Matt 23,24,& 25 will reveal the shortcomings of the J W theology. Remember that there were no chapter breaks when it was written as one document.

  Did Jesus really fortell a F & D slave class, or was it another figure of speech? The dubs at one time said that Russell himself was the slave!

  Read the signs carefully, what do the verses really say?

  Think about how long the WT has foretold the end? from 19th Cent, all the 2oth cent and now the 21st century...is that reasonable ? does God not know when to do it?

  Lots more stuff....

  BTW Your wife may be "counselled " against independent study - note this link to a thread about the Sept 07 Kingdom Ministry

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/139148/1.ashx

  scroll down to Elsewhere's post.

  Note however that it discusses organized groups replacing the formal studies, not personal Bible Study

  Go for it and good luck !
• 

  insearchoftruth

  Thanks all,

  For some reason she wants to study the bible with a JW sister, not on her own, and I am pretty sure that she will get a lot of push back to start with their publication rather than the bible. One of her former study sisters gave my wife her personal copy of insight on the scriptures, so at least that may be a guide to getting her to read the bible, though it is also quite slanted with the jw views.

  I know that the org states one can not understand the Bible on its own (of course needing the guidance of the FDS), but isn't that contrary to what the Bible says about itself?
• 

  blondie

  Few, very few, JWs know that the founder, Russell, believed that God resided in the Pleiades star system."

  Wasn't that Rutherford?

  I guess they both thought it.

  “Our solar system of planets is also found to be revolving together around some other great center … the group Pleiades. And the reasonable suggestion has been made that the center may be in the heavens, the highest heaven, the throne of God.” Zion’s Watch T ower , May 15, 1895, p121. highest heaven, the throne of God.” Zion’s Watch T ower , May 15, 1895, p121.

  The constellation of the seven stars forming the Pleiades appears to be the crowning center around which the known systems of the planets revolve.... It has been suggested, and with much weight, that one of the stars of that group is the dwelling place of Jehovah and the place of the highest heavens;....

  The constellation of the Pleiades is a small one compared with others which scientific instruments disclose to the wondering eyes of man. But the greatness in size of other stars or planets is small when compared to the Pleiades in importance, because the Pleiades is the place of the eternal throne of God.

  J. F. Rutherford, Reconciliation, 1928, p. 14.
• 

  Eyes Open

  I would love to get her some good non WTS sources on bible interpretation, do any of you know of anything I can use.

  You need this: How to Read the Bible: History, Prophecy, Literature - Why Modern Readers Need to Know the Difference, and What It Means for Faith Today

  Buy it. Buy it quick.

  Once you have it, perhaps you could suggest that you read through that book together once a week, or as often as you feel appropriate, as well as her having her study with the sister if that's what she's decided to do. Or maybe she would prefer to read it by herself. If the reader has an open mind, it should destroy psuedo-Christian fundamentalism such as JWism.

  It's not "apostate" - it doesn't once mention Jehovah's Witnesses. When you do chapter four (apocalyptic literature in the bible), you will come across a chap called William Miller. Do some research on his beliefs (Wikipedia is good) with your wife and compare them to the JW eschatology.
• 

  insearchoftruth

  Thanks Eyes Open, will be looking to find that book, looks quite interesting, and any additional viewpoints that she may read could foster some independent thinking!!

  I have a bible guide from Augsburg Fortress, but I believe she will think that is way too Lutheran of a stance, but I may still just leave it on the table at home for her to browse!