by Newborn 13 Replies latest jw friends
Hi again,
What's your take on the 144.000? All those in the org who claims to belong to this class, are they just imagining it? This has always been one of the big proof for me that this was the "truth". That there actually are those who have the heavenly calling...it confuses me...
Appreciate your thoughts on this.
Have anyone in this forum, previously, claimed to belong to this group and can explain it, how it feels etc.?
Thank you.
/Newborn
I wondered about this exact same thing. I have yet to meet an "anointed" person to ask them.
I currently think that they are all just imagining it, simply because all of the "anointed" (with the exception of the GB) depend on the GB members for "spiritual food". If the "FDS" interpretation is correct (which it's not), then Jesus would be dispensing his knowledge to all of the "remnant". Since that doesn't happen, then it's gotta be made up.
Can anyone else clarify?
The only ones that I knew who were totally innocent in their self-assurance that they were "annointed" were persons associated with this organization since the 1920s, and they really did not know any other way to do things. They were "annointed" simply because they were told they were, and they were JWs prior to 1935.
The one person that I asked about it was a "young annointed" who saw his personal light while he was at Bethel. It did get him out of the factory and into a CO spot. He was married to a nice lady who was other sheep. His reply to me was "well, I really cannot explain it, but you just know when you are one". Just about as clear as mud, IMHO.
By the way - I have many times wondered why only the "annointed" can celebrate the lords last supper - all other attendees used to be referred to as "observers", not "participants".
This is nothing more than a class structure to preserve an elite power clique.
All of the Book Of revelation is speaking figuratively...EXCEPT the 144,000 That is a solid number!
I hate the wt
May you have peace!
The 144,000 are PART of the group that makes up the nation of king and priests to the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. They are taken, literally, from "among the sons of Israel"... from all of the tribes except Dan (Joseph, the penultimate son of Jacob (Israel), receives two shares.) They are chosen... and "sealed"... because of God's promise to Abraham regarding his (Abraham's) seed: Abraham was promised that his seed (descendants)... through his son, Isaac... would be a chosen people for God.
Initially, the nation of Israel was to be that nation of kings and priests to God. This began to change when they rejected God as their king and asked for a human king. They were initially given Saul and told that the consequence of having such a king (a human) was that he would dominate them. After Saul, they were given other kings, until finally, the king that God had chosen for them (whom they couldn't wait for), appeared. He, too, they rejected and, as a result, God rejected them... as His Holy nation... and opened the way for people of the "nations" - non-Israelites... to be apart of that nation of kings and priests. To ensure that His promise to Abraham did not go unfulfilled, however, He reserved 144,000 slots in that nation... for those from among Abraham's seed.
The other part of that nation (of kings and priests) consists of a great crowd of folks from ALL nations, tribes, tongues and people... including more from Israel. Together, these (the 144,000)... AND the great crowd... enter into the spirit realm, so as to stand BEFORE the throne of God... and render sacred Him sacred service... in His "temple."
This not quite the same as the "little flock" and "other sheep" -
The "little flock" is made up of Jews ONLY... which are those of only two (2) tribes of Israel, Judah and Benjamin. Many scholars teach that the word "Jews" included the other tribes, so that ALL Israelites are "Jews." They base this on the misstatements that when the Jews, who were exiled in Babylon left and returned to Jerusalem, all of the Israelite tribes were included. That is false: the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel (which excluded Judah and Benjamin) were not IN Babylon; they had been exiled to Assyria and was still there when Jeremiah wrote of the exile of the Jews into Babylon. They (the 10-tribe)... are referred to as "Samaritans" (based on where they were taken, Samaria).
Thus, the "little flock" are Jews (those of the 2-tribe kingdom of Judah/Benjamin)... and the "other sheep" are all those called who are NOT Jews (i.e., those of the "nations") and includes those of the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel. Cornelius was of this latter group: a Samaritan (of the 10-tribe kingdom), and thus second in line, after the Jews.
In contrast, the "144,000" are made up of Judah and Benjamin (Jews)... AND nine of the other 10 tribes (Samaritans)... and the "great crowd" is made up of people of ALL nations... as well as of Israel, both Jews AND Samaritans:
Jews Samaritans Non-Israelite Nations
Little Flock Other Sheep Other Sheep
144,000 144,000 Great Crowd
Great Crowd Great Crowd
As for whether there are any of the 144,000 in the WTBTS, the answer is, no. First, they would only be such if they are direct descendants of Abraham. Second, even if that were the case, they would not be among ANY of these groups... if they are still connected/loyal to that organization... or any human organization. True, they may be CALLED... which is what their experience most likely is... but they are not CHOSEN... until the QUIT "touching the unclean thing." Many are called... few... are chosen.
That is why the reference to the 144,000 being "virgins" - it is not that they never had sex with a literal woman. It is that they have been washed clean in the blood of the Lamb, so that they become "undefiled,"... and they remain "undefiled" by not "touching" any woman... any RELIGION... which women are "the daughters" of Babylon the Great.
Babylon the Great... is a harlot... in that she had a husbandly-owner, but chose to commit fornication with the kings of the earth. As a result, she had "children"... daughters... "christians" religions. BTG... consists of those ANOINTED... who claim to belong to Christ (their "husbandly owner")... but "adulterate" that relationship by their relationship with "earthly" kings (i.e., governments, religions, institutions, agendas, politics, purposes, etc.). Rather than remain faithful to their ONE husband... by means of remaining faithful to HIS laws... they take on the "laws" of another/others... and so became faithful to them. Adultery.
Her "daughters"... the religions that have come out of her... are guilty of the same things, so that she (BTG) is also called "the MOTHER of the harlots."
But those who are considered "virgins"... are those who remain faithful to Christ... by remaining in the law of HIS "house"... and so have NO "relations" with ANY other "husband(s)."
There are some who believe that ancient Israel (Oholah and Oholibah) are the same as BTG. This is incorrect, however, because while it is true that Israel "committed adultery" against the Most Holy One of Israel... by going off after other gods, BTG commits fornication against Christ, the Son. Like Israel, therefore, she is replaced... by New Jerusalem... the "bride" of Christ... those who do NOT "fornicate"... with ANYONE else... but follow, listen to... and obey... only One. Their husbandly-owner, the One who bought them with HIS blood... Christ. And no other.
I hope this helps, and I bid you peace.
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
I just had an argument/discussion with my mother on this same subject.
After reading the May 2007 watchtower and the 1995 version/explanation, I no longer believe any of it. Their description is so convoluted it almost seems insane.
In earlier years, you really couldn't campare the changes unless you had an entire library of thier publications and a photographic memory to boot.
I told my mom what I had found here about the changes ...and she asked for the references. It was easy from this site. She has not responded, but handed me the public version of the August 1st wt. on paradise.
That's all they have left is the hope of paradise. 1914, 1975, the generation change, the 144000 and generation change ....they are looking like absolute fools and they know it.
If you you read that May 1st watchtower (2007) on this subject, it will make your head spin with convoluted dates and ideas. They actually refer to 1966.
Most JWs are so brain dead, they just....let it go.
r.
I know a brother who started partaking this year.
Posted before I was through....
Here is my take:
He was very very successful in the organization.
He was very very successful in business.
He was very successful raising his family.
He had a huge ego as much as he tried to be humble.
What was left that he hadn't accomplished?
I don't believe it was calculated. I believe he had nowhere to go or nothing to go after.
I don't believe it was a conscience decision but rather a result of his being so tweaked in the head he really believed he was.
He also admittedly did a lot of drugs years ago which may have contributed to his state of mind.
His wife and kids are not happy about this!!!
I'm pretty sure they are immagining it.
If they arent we better all start going back to the meetings.
Every one of the 144,000 that I've ever might seemed mentally unstable... at least the ones who suddenly claimed to be of the anointed when they didn't before.
The reason the idea of a "great crowd" became necessary was because the JW membership was increasing past 144,000 and they had to have an explanation for it.
In reality the great crowd are Gentile Christians as opposed to a "little flock" of Jews who became Christians. The actual 144,000 number is symbolic, not literal.
