It aint necessarilly so

by Simon 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • sunscapes
    sunscapes

    Holy!! touchy!! What is is with you jumping onto my post out of nowhere other than to irritate me? You're wearing Clinton's shoe. Nobody's perfect already, but, on average, Bush is giving it his best shot with people coming at him at both ears on all levels. The world's politicians usually make the best of what was given them, however my opinion of Clinton vs. Bush differs from yours. I don't wan't to enter into that cesspool.

    My point was, however, that the WTBTS uses the same political spin doctoring, even to an excess, in order to cover up blatant misdeeds. Everything has to be "filtered" through their media spokespeople and ranks. The end product is seldom other than pure distortion.

    A nice "welcome back" from any of you long-time members here would have been refreshing; those of you who remember me -- Jan does and acknowledged that yesterday...Cyg, Rick, Tina, Marilyn, bx, and COMF and a whole bunch of others I forgot to mention. A great big hug to you all; and let's continue to respect each other for our differences and rejoice for all we have in common!

    When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers ... we are ripping the foundations of justice from beneath future generations.

    formerly "Theocracy Rules Again"
    circa 1996-1999

  • Seeker
    Seeker
    Holy!! touchy!! What is is with you jumping onto my post out of nowhere other than to irritate me? You're wearing Clinton's shoe. Nobody's perfect already, but, on average, Bush is giving it his best shot with people coming at him at both ears on all levels. The world's politicians usually make the best of what was given them, however my opinion of Clinton vs. Bush differs from yours. I don't wan't to enter into that cesspool.

    Interesting assumptions you make. So my opinion of Clinton is different than yours? I think Clinton was sleazy. What do you think? The opposite, according to your assumption, I would suppose.

    My objection was when you said sping was a real "liberal tactic." As I responded, both sides do this equally. I think the reason the right wing began hating Clinton even before he was president is not because of his morals (after all, how often have we seen politicians on all sides exhibit bad moral behavior, so they could hardly be shocked that Clinton was just like them), but because a Democrat finally came along that could spin better than the Republicans.

    The spin out of the Bush White House is totally dishonest these days. And guess what? The next time a Democrat becomes president, the spin from his or her White House will also be dishonest. Politicians lie. All of them. Including Bush. He's already been caught lying to us, and no doubt he will continue to lie to us. Unlike Clinton, however, Bush had his wild years before he went into office. Clinton kept it up to this day, and so he was more readily sleazy in appearance. Most politicians are more subtle in their sleaze than Clinton.

    My point was, however, that the WTBTS uses the same political spin doctoring, even to an excess, in order to cover up blatant misdeeds. Everything has to be "filtered" through their media spokespeople and ranks. The end product is seldom other than pure distortion.
    I agree with that 100%, and it's just as bad as what politicians do. Again, my objection was your assertion that this was a "liberal tactic," when it is a tactic used equally by all sides.

    A nice "welcome back" from any of you long-time members here would have been refreshing; those of you who remember me -- Jan does and acknowledged that yesterday...Cyg, Rick, Tina, Marilyn, bx, and COMF and a whole bunch of others I forgot to mention. A great big hug to you all; and let's continue to respect each other for our differences and rejoice for all we have in common!
    I respect differences, but I don't respect slanted, false statements that I know to be false. You are welcome to be conservative (many folks here are). What I hope you won't do is make a side statement in a topic along the lines of, oh, say, "Anyway, all brunettes are dishonest," and when someone points out the prejudice in that statement you respond with, "Well, this is some kind of welcome I'm getting! What's with you?"

    Make an inflammatory comment on a discussion board, you can get a correction. I sure got pounced on all day yesterday for my inflammatory comments. Join the club.

    Now, if you don't make such prejudicial statements, I won't jump in to correct them. And no matter what you do, welcome back. Always glad to have another person joining in. No really, I do mean that, and although I responded harshly to your statement, I don't feel that way about you as a person.

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Seeker,

    Up to your old tricks I see.

    You get adament about the most ridiculous statements.

    Hell I don't even think Clinton would argue with sunscapes. He was the most ardent devotee to the 'spin doctor's', poll taker's, than any other Pres past or present.

    When was the last time you even heard Bush or his spokesman refer to a poll, if at all, it certainly was not to parse certain word's. Unlike Clinton, who seemed to be a master at selecting word's that passed muster with the pollster's, so that he could weasel his way out of them, knowing full well that he would. 'It all depends on what the word 'IS' is or was, or whatever, hehe you know what I mean.' Clinton speak. Lip trembling.

    Now if you go and say Bush does the same thing, then you liberal's will have to retract all the nasty things you said about Bush's IQ...because surely for anyone to master the 'spin doctor' method, one must be able to remember how to twist even the 'IS' to suit one's agenda. Now that would mean Bush has an IQ similar, or even greater, than Bubba Clinton. You would not want to be spreading those kinda rumors would you?

    Seeker you want so desperately to be 'the sage' middle of the road guy. The guy who see's all sides, takes no sides, but ends up, never knowing what's really going on. You try to hard to be 'brilliant'.

    Danny

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    Huh? What's all this talk about Clinton? The point of my most recent response was that what I found objectionable was sunscape saying spin is a "liberal tactic," not so much the accusation about Clinton. I said Clinton was better at spin than even the Republicans, in fact, he was better at it than most politicians. If he only were more circumspect about his personal life, he would have gotten away with lots of sleaze, the way most politicians get away with sleaze.

    But this is not a Clinton versus Bush point primarily. This is about sunscape calling spin a "liberal tactic" as if only they do it. All politicians do it, including Bush. This point is so well-known and self-evident, I can't believe you don't readily admit it instead of taking advantage of another conversation to jump on me.

    Sunscape, in the middle of a conversation, said a throwaway line about spin that was totally one-sided. That is the very definition of spin, which means sunscape is guilty of doing the very thing accused of Clinton and the WTS. That's precisely how spin works.

    Sunscape accused the WTS of doing this. Everybody is happy. I accuse sunscape of doing the same thing. Suddenly I'm the bad guy.

    Fine, I've made my point. I'll move on. The political reality doesn't change no matter how much spin is applied.

  • Julie
    Julie

    "There's that word spin again! It actually means that they LIE to get out of some embarrassing situation(s). A real liberal tactic; very Clinton-esque; disgusting."

    This is a broad general statement that is not a statement of fact it is SPIN. If you were indeed trying to be neutral maybe you could have just said "a very political tactic--very Clinton/Reagan-esque; disgusting" or left names out of it entirely.

    You seem to be interested in politics. I'd be interested to know your thoughts on my thread regarding the current stimulus debate in Washington right now, sunscape. Especially considering how adverse you are to spin. I'd be interested in getting an honest, right-wing low-down on the Republican proposals. I see them trying to get contributors more corporate welfare, perhaps you can clear that up for me.

    Dannybear,

    You apparently have a personal grudge against Seeker and will obviously use any opportunity to attack him. You never came and replied to my post because there was nothing you could say to back up your actions toward Seeker. How transparent you are. Disagree? There's still time and opportunity to reply.....unless you *like* looking cowardly......unable to back yourself up........

    Julie

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Julie,

    I guess Iam a coward then.

    I have no interest in debating you about Seeker's good or bad qualities, we all have them. So just get over it.

    Attacking Seeker? No just the words on the page, madame.

    In fact I thought Seeker's reply to me was very thoughtful and answered some of my questions to him.

    If anyone needs to improve reading and comprehension skills it appear's to be you Julie.

    Danny

  • Julie
    Julie

    Let's see how my comprehension skills are Dannybear. I assert you attack Seeker, you just don't like the guy and have no good reason to be so critical of him. Of course I merly lack comprehension skills, right? Hmmm.

    >Seeker,
    >Up to your old tricks I see.

    >You get adament about the most ridiculous statements.

    This doesn't seem very complimentary to me, not even civil. It's even confrontational. Or do I mis-read?

    >Hell I don't even think Clinton would argue with sunscapes. He was >the most ardent devotee to the 'spin doctor's', poll taker's, than >any other Pres past or present.

    Here's where your obvious lack of comprehension come in. Show me where Seeker is singing the praises of Clinton. While you're at it why don't you prove your statement about Clinton here. Try a comparison to oh, I don't know, you pick, Reagan? Nixon? Johnson? Show us the difference in how they operated from Clinton to prove your point.

    Then you continue on with this:

    >When was the last time you even heard Bush or his spokesman refer to >a poll, if at all, it certainly was not to parse certain word's. >Unlike Clinton, who seemed to be a master at selecting word's that >passed muster with the pollster's, so that he could weasel his way >out of them, knowing full well that he would. 'It all depends on >what the word 'IS' is or was, or whatever, hehe you know what I >mean.' Clinton speak. Lip trembling.

    LOL Again you blather on as if Seeker had taken a stand in Clinton's defense or something!! Additionally funny is to see you swallowing the spin of the current admin that they "never" look at polls etc. Hilarious!! Perhaps your historian friend Teejay can explain to you that rulers/politicians have been gauging public opinion for millenia.

    You wrap it up with:

    >Seeker you want so desperately to be 'the sage' middle of the road >guy. The guy who see's all sides, takes no sides, but ends up, never >knowing what's really going on. You try to hard to be 'brilliant'.

    Ah so we get to the heart of it. You come off as a simpleton, Seeker often seems brilliant and it irritates you. I can see your point.

    Seeker *is* a middle of the road kind of guy. We use a term called "moderate". I consider myself to be one so I can relate. I do not see though where your assertion applies and that is, primarily, that Seeker is wishy-washy. He states his opinion and explains it, usually to no avail with you.

    You said to me:

    >In fact I thought Seeker's reply to me was very thoughtful and answered some of my questions to him.

    Did I say anything about Seeker's posts/replies? Yes, Seeker's replies are usually thoughtful and do answer questions. Unlike yours.

    Julie

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Simon

    If they are just stories, then christianity is a 2000 yr ongoing scam based on a sham.

    SS

  • outnfree
    outnfree

    So, Simon...

    If the host asked the British museum guy about the "ancient Israelite" artifacts of which there were none, just how did the show prove or disprove the Battle of Jericho?

    Also, are there truly NO ancient Israelite artifacts or just none housed in the British Museum? (Exhibited in Israel mostly?)

    Inquiring minds want to know...

    outnfree

    When the truth is found to be lies
    and all the joy within you dies ...
    -- Darby Slick, Somebody to Love

  • Simon
    Simon

    Episode 2 of 6 will be starting on ITV1 in about 30 mins - well worth watching.

    Wish I'd had some blank video tapes ... oh well, maybe it wil lbe out on DVD ?

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