by TweetieBird 15 Replies latest jw friends
You guys are probably going to think this is silly of me, but I have always wondered why the society, in the NWT and all of their literature always uses the term "undeserved kindness" and never the term "grace." Is it because the churches of Christendom use the term grace, therefore it is bad?
I know that undeserved kindness is suppose to mean the same as grace, but is it really?
All of your thoughts are greatly appreciated>
The organization has gone out of its way to be different -
Bible The Organization
========= ================
Old & New Testiment Hebrew & Greek Scriptures
Cross Torture Stake
Hell Hades:Sleep
Grace Undeserved kindness
Jesus - The King, God
Risen One, Messiah Michael - (The Angel), annointed Son,
a god, a spirit
When Russell was teaching - he used the King James Bible, the organization at the time taught the Trinity, celebrated holidays, believed in Jesus dying on the Cross..........as we know it today much has changed and been twisted.
Looks like a lot of difference to me in the two transplations
Kindness:
1. The quality or state of being kind.
2. An instance of kind behavior: I will always remember your many kindnesses to me.
Grace:
1. Divine love and protection bestowed freely on people. The state of being protected or sanctified by the favor of God
2. An excellence or power granted by God.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Sam Beli
I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind. What is crooked cannot be straightened and what is lacking cannot be counted. Solomon
Sorry Sozo, but Russell never taught the Trinity!
____________________________
"Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional."
I read a book a few months ago called "What's so Amazing about Grace?" by Philip Yancey. In it he said that "Grace" was the one Biblical word that has remained unchanged and unhindered by Christian thought and translators. Unlike, agape (love) which used to be translated "charity", grace hasn't changed. (Charity tends to get bad connotations such as "I don't need your charity")
When I read that I thought immediately that the WTS has changed Grace to Undeserved Kindness. We never said "Grace" at the dinner table as JWs. Yet "Grace" is all around us in such words as gratitude, gratuity, grateful, gratis. A judge may be termed "Your Grace" we can be graceful, gracious or even ungrateful. Somehow underserved kindness doesn't quite cut it. But then again, the Watchtower's idea of grace is somewhat different to the simple ,yet extraordinary, teaching of Jesus.
Thirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
Althogh the word grace has grace or universal appeal, it dosn't fully convey the original greek. The idea in greek is something given as a gift, something undeserved. The word is sometimes contrasted with a word that means ones pay, or wage. Charis, the greek for grace, has a latin equivalant of the word where we derive the word donation, hence charity. They all tie in don't they. Charis=chairty=donating.
Really undeserved kindness is an excellent choice. Willam Barclay one of the most unbiased and well researched greek scholars congrues with the Watchtower group in this regard.
Really what I've found, is that the Watchtower basically sat down and used a bunch of greek dictionarys and commentaries to translate with.
Anyways, Grace to you
3.14
I'm not sure that the word kindness necessarily includes the beauty encompassed in the word grace.
The Lord said "I want kindness, not animal sacrifice" (which I also think condemnes the WT society in a sentence) , but would it sound the same if He said "I want grace" i.e. from us ?
Can we say that such beauty is natural to humans ? Rather, grace is thought of as God. It's said that one may be full of grace, such as Mary, and we consider God in such a statement, but we can refer to kindness in a more human way.
Bang
To me, grace is a much more positive word
than
undeserved kindness--undeserved--like we
are so awful we don't deserve God's love
and kindness, but he gives it to us anyway.
Like he grudgingly puts up with us.
Grace conveys God's love freely given
to all because he values and cares for us.
Quester
G'day Thirdson,
Gotta tell ya, you've made my day with your comments on grace.
It's exactly what I've come to understand and it was so good to read your confirming thoughts.
Cheers,
Ozzie
Quester, you've conveyed what I was feeling. I have always felt that way.
I like the way you put it, "Grace conveys God's love freely given
to all because he values and cares for us." Well said.
