Is there a Christian message without the element of fear/perceived threat?

by nvrgnbk 133 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  AGuest

  and the sword OF the Spirit, which IS the word of God...ephesians 6:17

  You are misreading this verse, dear Michelle (peace to you!) as many often do. You are reading:

  "and the SWORD of the Spirit, which [sword] is the word of God," which is incorrect, as opposed to "the sword of the SPIRIT, which [Spirit] is the [W]ord of God." Which is correct. Do you see?

  “ Come now, and let us reason together,”
  Says the LORD, (in the temple?)

  Yes, in His "temple," which temple His people are, yes. Again, it is what we are ON THE INSIDE that is at question... the sins of the SPIRIT (not the sins of the flesh!!)... which are like scarlet (blood red)... but can be cleansed (made white as snow).

  If you are willing and obedient, (to the Spirit?)
  You shall eat the good of the land;

  Yes! And that Spirit is Christ, who is recorded to have said, "If you love ME... you WILL obey MY commandments."

  But if you refuse and rebel, (against the Spirit?)
  You shall be devoured by the sword”;
  For the mouth of the LORD has spoken. isaiah 1:18-20

  this doesn't make sense to me

  That's because this verse applied the nation of Israel... literally! They were in a covenant relationship where they AGREED to be bound by the Law of such covenant. The "sword" that THEY would be devoured by was that of their national enemies. For SPIRITUAL Israel... the "sword" that they would be "devoured" by is the sword... of the SPIRIT... the sword... of TRUTH.

  if..."Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?...if anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple are you? 1 corinthians 2:16-17... would one destroy the temple by refusing and rebeling against the Spirit, and the word would devour him?

  No, one would "destroy" the temple that is one's body... by bringing/allowing/perpetuating UNCLEANNESS within that body. How so? By allowing/perpetuating one's own SPIRIT to be "unclean." Thus, my Lord said, "Cleanse the INSIDE of the cup." You MUST be "clean"... on the INSIDE... if you are to "carry the utensils" of the Most Holy One of Israel. And you must be "clean"... so that you can "bear fruit."

  or would one destroy the temple by refusing and rebeling against the temple and the sword would devour him?

  See above. And the "sword" is the truth that would reveal what such person REALLY is... on the INSIDE. For there is a single thing HIDDEN from HIS sight... that is, from the sight of the WORD of God... Christ... who is ALIVE.

  ...I'm not kidding, it doesn't make sense to me...unless I read it as reasoning together "in the scriptures"...being willing and obedient "to the scriptures'...

  That is because the "scriptures" is all you know. IF you knew the True God... by reasons of knowing His Son and Christ, the Holy Spirit, you would it would make sense to you. Then, you would be walking by SPIRIT... and TRUTH... and not by SIGHT.

  or refusing and rebeling "against the scriptures"...and then those same scriptures would be your "undoing"...so to speak...

  The Prophet Isaiah spoke about one who had a "sacred" piece of wood, dear Michelle, part of which he prostrated himself to and the other part he used to "warm" himself. What was this depicting? Idols... things that are made of materials that, on the one hand earthling man worships, and one the other hand will throw parts of into the fire in order to stay warm. Which part is "sacred"? Just like the various crosses and other talismans that people wear, only part of it is worshipped: the part that was forged into the talisman. The rest is thrown back into the fire, either as fuel or to become part of the next talisman. The same is true with the Bible: the paper it is written on is taken from a tree? Was the tree sacred? If so, what of the remaining pieces of paper/wood, that which did not make it into the final product? If the Book itself is sacred, what of the tree it was made from? And yet, the residual wood and paper ends up... where?

  However, the Word of God... is completey sacred! ALL of him! There is no part that is to be venerated, while another part is to be tossed in the fire.

  love michelle

  Thank you, SO much, for not becoming offended. I TRULY appreciate it as, like you, I am only trying to have an interchange, one that sets for the truth. It means a great deal to me that you are allowing it, without believing me to be trying to argue or cause a division. I am not. I am YOUR servant and so... I OWE you these truths as they have been given me by the Holy Spirit. I would have absolutely wronged you if I had withheld them from you.

  p.s. those same scriptures/words/swords, will be beaten into plowshares to cultivate...so as to eat the good of the land...that just makes more sense to me and even sticks with the same "subject" in the verses in isaiah 1:18-20...

  Actually, this is speaking of literal swords, implements of war and hate, being beaten into implements of cultivation. The True God... is a FARMER... a "cultivator"... a "sower of seed"... a planter of trees, particularly the Tree of Life... and so, a man of peace. His people are to LEARN... to be the same. John 15:1-8

  I bid you the greatest of love and peace , and I remain,

  YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  myelaine

  dear AGuest...

  thank you for taking the time to explain this to me. I had to talk to God about this whole conversation with you (again)...and He kept His response pretty simple..."I have prepared the table. I will show you what to eat."

  Let the saints be joyful in glory;
  Let them sing aloud on their beds.
  Let the high praises of God be in their mouth,
  And a two-edged sword in their hand,
  To execute vengeance on the nations,
  And punishments on the peoples;
  To bind their kings with chains,
  And their nobles with fetters of iron;
  To execute on them the written judgment—
  This honor have all His saints.
  
  Praise the LORD! Psalm 149:5-9

  love michelle
• 

  AGuest

  Let the saints be joyful in glory;
  Let them sing aloud on their beds.
  Let the high praises of God be in their mouth,
  And a two-edged sword in their hand,
  To execute vengeance on the nations,
  And punishments on the peoples;
  To bind their kings with chains,
  And their nobles with fetters of iron;
  To execute on them the written judgment—
  This honor have all His saints.
  
  Praise the LORD! Psalm 149:5-9

  I can see how this verse would make sense to those of "Israel" that still bound to the Law Covenant... by means of still being fleshly. For those who have been set FREE, however, those who have become a NEW creation, by means of holy spirit and so belong to a NEW Covenant, we would follow the Christ and beat OUR "swords"... into plowshares.

  What does that mean? It means, we recognize that vengeance... belongs to GOD... and that it is HE who will repay, not us. We recognize that GOD... is the Judge of all... and it is HE who "executes on them" the judgment that is written. Written where? In the Law... for such ones are judge BY the Law. We, however, are NOT (Romans 8:1)... and so, should not want ANY to be judged, but ALL to be shown mercy. That is what a true priest of the Most High God does: makes supplication and requests mercy on behalf of the people, even those who disobedients and as such constitute themselves God's enemies.

  Isn't that why Noah was constituted a preacher of RIGHTEOUSNESS... because he tried to save the people by building an ark? Isn't that Abraham supplicated in behalf of Sodom and Gomorrah? Isn't it why Moses pled on behalf of unfaithful Israel? Yet, none of these had the Law Covenant. Rather, they showed the TRUE Covenant of God... one that is fulfilled in love... and MERCY... to be written upon their HEARTS.

  That is what Christ, the Holy Spirit taught... and did. And it is what he teaches yet:

  "For God sent for His Son into the world, NOT for him to judge the world, but for the world to be SAVED... through him." John 3:17

  "You judge according to the flesh; I do not judge ANY man... at all." John 8:15

  "But, if anyone HEARS MY SAYINGS... and DOES NOT KEEP... I do NOT judge him; for I came... NOT to judge the world, but to SAVE the world." John 12:47

  And so, how are ones to be judged? My Lord is recorded to have said:

  "He that disregards me and does not receive my saying has one to judge them. The word... THAT I HAVE SPOKEN... is what will judge him... in the last day; but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak." John 12:48, 49

  And what did/does God tell him to speak? Many things with regard to how we are to be toward our enemies (i.e., executing vengeance on the nations and punishment on the peoples), including:

  "You HEARD that it was said, 'You must love your neighbor and HATE your enemy.' However, I say to you: Continue to LOVE YOUR ENEMIES... and to PRAY for those persecuting you; that you may PROVE to be sons of your Father who is in the heavens..." Matthew 5:43-45

  So, what WE have to decide today is whether we will continue serving God pursuant to the Law [Covenant]... which Covenant was mediated by Moses, and exacts vengeance and retribution upon its transgressors and enemies, thus using the "two-edged sword" of the Law [Covenant]... which is JUDGMENT... and results in CONDEMNATION and DEATH... OR...

  Enter into and serve God pursuant to the NEW Covenant, which was mediated by CHRIST, and exacts MERCY and FORGIVENESS upon its transgressors and enemies, thus using the "two-edged sword" of the TRUTH... and results in a RELEASING... and LIFE.

  We are all free to choose what it is we will follow, dear Michelle. I choose to follow a "whom"... and not a "what". The Bible is a "what" and Thus, I choose to follow the Son of God, the Holy One of Israel and its Fine Shepherd, Christ. We all must also choose HOW we will enter in before the Person of the MOST Holy One of Israel, God Himself, JAH of Armies: Through the Door or by climbing up some other place. John 10:1

  Me and my household? We have chosen to enter through "the Narrow Gate," the Door through which any who which to enter in before the MOST Holy One of Isreal MUST go... so as not to be fashioned a thief... and a plunderer. That Narrow Gate and Door are One and the same: my Lord, the Holy Spirit, Christ. John 10:7-9; John 14:6

  Again, I bid you the greatest of love and peace, and ears to hear as the Spirit and the Bride KEEP saying:

  "Come! All you who are wishing and thirsting, Come! Take 'life's water'... FREE!"

  Your servant and a slave of Christ (and not the Bible),

  SA
• 

  myelaine

  dearAGuest...

  ...I'm not a slave to the Bible as you seem to think...it is a provision that God has given us to use to show people how to know God and what He will do for humaniy if we choose to follow His way.

  But the LORD your God will deliver them over to you, and will inflict defeat upon them until they are destroyed. And He will deliver their kings into your hand, and you will destroy their name from under heaven; no one shall be able to stand against you until you have destroyed them. You shall burn the carved images of their gods with fire; you shall not covet the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it for yourselves, lest you be snared by it; for it is an abomination to the LORD your God. Nor shall you bring an abomination into your house, lest you be doomed to destruction like it. You shall utterly detest it and utterly abhor it, for it is an accursed thing. deut. 7:23-26

  according to what you have said,

  "The Prophet Isaiah spoke about one who had a "sacred" piece of wood, dear Michelle, part of which he prostrated himself to and the other part he used to "warm" himself. What was this depicting? Idols... things that are made of materials that, on the one hand earthling man worships, and one the other hand will throw parts of into the fire in order to stay warm. Which part is "sacred"? Just like the various crosses and other talismans that people wear, only part of it is worshipped: the part that was forged into the talisman. The rest is thrown back into the fire, either as fuel or to become part of the next talisman. The same is true with the Bible: the paper it is written on is taken from a tree? Was the tree sacred? If so, what of the remaining pieces of paper/wood, that which did not make it into the final product? If the Book itself is sacred, what of the tree it was made from? And yet, the residual wood and paper ends up... where?"

  you make it sound like anyone that has any reverence for God's written Word is practicing idol worship...

  I am thankful that I can look into the written Word anytime I want...I have found comfort while reading it...because I have felt the presence of God while doing so...

  I guess aIl I can say at this point is that my faith is not as strong as yours because I still need this "staff"...still trying to catch up tho...

  love michelle

  p.s. I don't have any enemies that I'm aware of...I thought I was praying for my friends all this time