the current changes allow a lot of centuries to come without waking up most jws. oh wait... it waked me up.
Finally putting the new light all together
by JimmyPage 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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insearchoftruth
What would be a good question to raise from this for the pesky sister that is talking with my wife. I have asked her about the anointed and the remnant class, can I use the reasoning book, which contains the old light and ask her that question and then use that to lead into a question why the doctrine has changed, or would I most likely get a bunch of dubspeak from her?
A while ago when my wife studied....gag with this same pesky sister I had asked her for a list of references from the trinity book, which she has never provided, in fact after I asked for that I never saw her again, well I reminded my wife I am still looking for the references....
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Mary
See, the door to heaven which was previously closed in 1935 has been reopened. And the new meaning of "generation" applies to these anointed ones. So as long as more people can go to heaven then the generation can keep going indefinitely and the year 1914 doesn't have to be discarded. Am I correct on all this? And if it's taken an independent thinker awhile to put this together, will any of the rank and file ever realize what's going on?
You're observations are correct, although I doubt most of the R&F will actually clue in to what the change actually entailed. By the WT's 'new light' that "this generation" is referring to the "annointed as a class", they are actually including those from 33 CE right on down to today. In other words, "this generation" is over 1900 years old. But of course, they don't want to come right out and say that, because that might raise the shackles of even the most loyal Witness and one thing we can't have is anyone actually putting two and two together. So it was worded in a very vague way and I'm sure that the majority of Dubs did not realize the significance of the change. But in a few years' time when they get more 'new light on the subject', they'll go "wait a minute----I don't recall them ever saying that 'this generation' was 1900 years old' and lo and behold, someone will point them to this WT study article and they'll chastise themselves for not paying closer attention.
This is yet another 'bait and switch' tactic that the Writing Dept. uses on a regular basis. The only reason they continue to get away with pulling this crap, is because the only ones who are really 'paying close attention' to what they're actually saying, are 'apostates'.
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SnakesInTheTower
N1A:
So what will happen is the old people that was hearing all the 1914 horse shit either died off or are gonna die off soon. I'ts simple the more new members you get the less they know about there 1914 date so all they have to do is talk about it less and less and there will be know uproar because all the old members will be dead and nobody will know about the 1914 date. Sweet i should give them my ideas on how to get out of the 1914 date but i'm sure they are masters at deception i'm only a student!
It seems to me I read something about this concept, called "group dynamics." A friend of mine said it can take up to 6 "generations" or cycles to clear out old thinking. I read this on a wiki page about what it will take to get change to occur:
Change process
An early model of change developed by Lewin described change as a three-stage process. The first stage he called "unfreezing". It involved overcoming inertia and dismantling the existing "mind set". Defense mechanisms have to be bypassed. In the second stage the change occurs. This is typically a period of confusion and transition. We are aware that the old ways are being challenged but we do not have a clear picture as to what we are replacing them with yet. The third and final stage he called "freezing". The new mindset is crystallizing and one's comfort level is returning to previous levels. This is often misquoted as "refreezing" (see Lewin K (1947) Frontiers in Group Dynamics).
so 3 steps...... "overcoming inertia and dismantling existing mindset"..... we have seen how difficult this is. We try to get our JW loved ones to see the truth about the "Truth"..and we hit this wall of inertia.... step 2 "confusion and transition" How many of us have gone through this or are still going through this period of change? We were so damned convinced we had the truth..once our mental wall was broken down...now what? Step 3...gaining that new mindset... new thinking outside the Watchtower box...
however...this process works just as well for the Borg..........EXCEPT that Step 2 is skipped entirely.....they insert new teachings in Step 1...no one notices..........And if you point it out to the diehard JW relative or friend......well..you know how it goes.... you have heard it before: "It was Jehovah's due time"...or "the light gets brighter.." or "the holy spirit is with the Organization..giving us what we need in due time." For a few thinking people...step 2 hits them and they leave...but mostly?...right to step 3.
freaking cult...I want my momma out...
Snakes ()
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Mary
snakes said: A friend of mine said it can take up to 6 "generations" or cycles to clear out old thinking
Ya, but now that we know that a 'generation' is over 1900 years long, we're look at it taking 11,400 years to clear out old thinking. Won't we be in de Noo System of Tings by then?
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Homerovah the Almighty
There is a constant effort by the GB to maintain the illusion that they are indeed leaders of God's only solemn organization
this is very important to them for without this self created illusion they lose support and power all together.
Their deliberate doctrinal spins or as they refer New Light is just that very intension.
Power is pointless unless you know how to maintain it and hold on to it .
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zugzwang
Here is what I find reprehensible.
Prior to 1935 it was believed that all Witnesses ("Bible Students" as they were then known) were going to go to heaven, correct? There was only the one class of Christians all with the heavenly hope. Then in 1935 the teaching changed into 2 hopes, 1 heavenly, 1 earthly. Further it was taught that everyone who came into association with the Organization after 1935 was generally going to live on earth, not in heaven. Now in 2008 the 1935 change has effectively been removed. So, wouldn't that mean that, if nothing changed in 1935, that all Witnesses would go to heaven?
Either 1935 was right or it was wrong, and if it was wrong then it would seem that their former teaching, that of one class of Christians all going to heaven, would still be in effect. Am I missing something here?
So why is it that they don't teach that all Witnesses are anointed and go to heaven? They want to uncouple themselves from the failed 1935 teaching but they don't want to go all the way and recognize that the whole 2 classes of Christians teaching is wrong as well. They are too tied in with the idea of 144,000 being a literal number of persons going to heaven. Thus, they say that the 1935 cut-off may have been wrong.
Well if it was then what caused so many Witnesses, back in 1935 and 1936, to suddenly start believing that they were going to live on earth rather than in heaven? If the Watchtower didn't have the right to tell people that they weren't going to heaven and they told them that anyway wouldn't that be something like what is described at Matthew 23:13- "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in."
Pretty serious situation the Watchtower Society finds themselves in if they are behaving like Pharisees.
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kurtbethel
If the Watchtower didn't have the right to tell people that they weren't going to heaven and they told them that anyway wouldn't that be something like what is described at Matthew 23:13- "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in."
That is exactly what they have been doing. And they seem unashamed to have been called out for who they are in that verse.
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Mary
Prior to 1935 it was believed that all Witnesses ("Bible Students" as they were then known) were going to go to heaven, correct? There was only the one class of Christians all with the heavenly hope. Then in 1935 the teaching changed into 2 hopes, 1 heavenly, 1 earthly.
Yes and no. They always taught that there were 'two groups', the 144,000 and the Great Crowd. The difference is that they used to teach that the Great Crowd still went to heaven, but in a lesser position than the 144,000 (apparently they weren't as 'strong' in the Truth as the 'annointed'). I believe it was under Rutherfraud that this changed and where he banished the Great Crowd to live on earth, despite the fact that the scripture in Revelation clearly states that the Great Crowd serves in God's Temple and are "before His throne". Not being content with that change, the Great Crowd members started to be viewed as not even really "christians" by those claiming to be of the annointed. I don't think that's ever changed.
Further it was taught that everyone who came into association with the Organization after 1935 was generally going to live on earth, not in heaven. Now in 2008 the 1935 change has effectively been removed. So, wouldn't that mean that, if nothing changed in 1935, that all Witnesses would go to heaven?
You'd think so, but the answer is still 'no' for the simple reason that they still view the number 144,000 as being literal. Since there are over 6.5 million Witnesses, there's no way they would ever promote the idea that they all had the heavenly hope.
Well if it was then what caused so many Witnesses, back in 1935 and 1936, to suddenly start believing that they were going to live on earth rather than in heaven?
A little thing called "intimidation".
If the Watchtower didn't have the right to tell people that they weren't going to heaven and they told them that anyway wouldn't that be something like what is described at Matthew 23:13- "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in."
You're absolutely right but of course, they don't see it that way. This is another good example of them trying to weasle their way out of a false doctrine without having to admit they've been dead wrong for decades. My own thought on this is that they are eventually going to get a 'new flash of light' and they're going to make the 144,000 a symbolic number. This would actually be of benefit to them in a few ways:
1) It would explain why the Memorial partakers are increasing each year, not decreasing
2) With their theory that there will be 'some annointed' still on earth when the Great Tribulation breaks out, this would give them an unlimited number of years to play with. After all, if you've got 20 or 30 year olds who are part of the 'annointed', that can buy them several decades with which they can continue to try and whip everyone up into a frenzy with 'the sky is falling' crap. They would continue to insist that the 'majority' of Christians still had an earthly hope, but that the number '144,000' is symbolic. While I'm sure this would cause quite the commotion amongst the R&F, I don't think it would have anywhere near the impact that changing "this generation" had.
3) It would have absolutely no effect on the structure or authority of the Governing Body, since they don't consult anyone who claims to be of the annointed on matters anyway. The only area where you'd see any great change is the number of bottles of wine they'd have to get for the Memorial each year.
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Sirona
The main reason for opening the doors again on the anointed is so that we don't run out of anointed!!
Imagine in about 20-30 years when all the anointed are dead...that wouldn't fit because armageddon hadn't come yet.
So what they've done is opened the doors for new YOUNGER people to claim a heavenly hope. Thus making the big A much further away.
Sirona