Congrats to Silent Lambs

by proplog2 20 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  proplog2

  Although I don't agree with your general motives you HAVE accomplished some good. It appears the Watchtower HAS altered its official policy judging from the reports on the recent Elder seminar.

  Allowing serial cases to be counted as two or more witnesses is similar to the exception courts make in child abuse cases. Ordinariily a jury is not to consider evidence from one case as bearing on another case but this is allowed in the case of child abuse.

  I never expected them to fold this easily. Apparently they really are scared!

  Nevertheless I maintain that your portrayal of the Watchtower society as a hot-bed of child abuse is inaccurate and born of hostilities you have for your local elder buddies.
• 

  Farkel

  : I never expected them to fold this easily. Apparently they really are scared!

  They have good reason to be scared. Remember Chitty and Greenlees? That's all I can say right now.

  Farkel

  "When in doubt, duck!"
• 

  Yerusalyim

  WHo else has this info on the Elder's Meeting? It still doesn't go far enough.

  YERUSALYIM
  "Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
  [Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]
• 

  silentlambs

  The supposed change is actually no change at all. If you read the Flock book on two witnesses that is the basic policy stated therein. All they did at the school was review that policy. The point taken that destroys action for child molesters is the word "credible", this word thus destroys a childs testimony as being acceptable. The fact the example of smoking was used(the same used in the flock book)indicates there is no change when it comes to children's testimony. If there had of been an actual change certainly the child molestation issue would have been used as an example. Sadly it was not. Thus it appears the WT wants to keep everything as it is. Children are not credible witnesses and in many documented cases are ignored at the direction of WT legal. One case that comes to mind is where a jw in good standing was convicted went to jail, but has yet to have any judicial action by the congregation. Seventeen non-credible witnesses came forward to the congregation. Watchtower legal responded no action could be taken due to the pedophile's denial of wrongdoing and the seventeen children not being credible.

  What can I say but only wicked, lying, hypocrites, would declare the word of a convicted child molester credible and ignore the testimony of seventeen victims.
• 

  hawkaw

  Bill,

  Your work is fantastic and when the entire story airs on Dateline I suspect this puppy is going to get some serious legs.

  I took some time last night out of life to read over (slowly) your radio interview you did (posted at your site).

  It was devastating to say the least and to compare how the WTS treats children to how the Taliban treats women was awesome. Good optics.

  I think you should use that little phrase from now on. "Worldly people" remember those catchy little phrases and with current events the way they are now it will really hit a home run.

  Keep up the great work and I hope you and your good friend are preparing for the media blitz. With any luck, by the end of the year, the Watchtower will be forced to let the police and social services make the call on who is lying and also there will be a policy in place that alerts the public and congregation as to who is a molester in the congregation.

  hawk
• 

  proplog2

  Hawk:

  The veracity of testimony is not determined by social workers or police. This determination is made by a court. Police and social workers just provide what are generally considered "professional opinions". The testimony is considered "professional" because of occupational certification but it is not necessarily "true". There are serious problems with some of the techniques that are used to elicit testimony from children.

  Because of the 1980's hysteria over molestation the law is weighted against those who are accused of being molesters. The law is not perfect. That's why some of the best attorneys won't even get involved in defending an accused molester - they want to have a fair chance at winning.

  The Michael Jackson incident is a good example. He could have won his case but fortunately had enough money to make his predatory accusers satisfied.
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Prop

  What's wrong with Bob's motives? From my point of view he's trying to protect kids. Is that wrong?

  YERUSALYIM
  "Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
  [Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]
• 

  ZazuWitts

  Not one, not two, but SEVENTEEN victims, and still no congregational action via instructions from the Tower's Legal staff.

  Don't you see Proplog2, this isn't Silentlamb's issue with a few congregational elders - rather it is the WTBTS policy of letting innocents suffer and pay the price, so that the Tower can try and avoid the legal consequences!

  Jehovah's Witnesses aren't the only religious organization with such molestation issues, but now days, they are surely one of the few, of any sizeable membership that so desperately try and keep the 'image' of being clean. Have you read the many, many experiences on Silentlamb's web-site. So many innocent victims, who have had no satisfaction in seeing their criminal molesters dealt with properly.

  And yet, over an issue such a smoking, it now seems quite fitting, to take the word of a 'witness here and a witness there' to proceed with a judicial committee to likely disfellowship a smoker. And wouldn't you agree, that if a JW is a smoker, that individual wouldn't be smoking around other JW's in the first place...no, indeed, he/she would be taking great measures to hide his tobacco use.

  Neither is a molester with an iota of sense going to act our his depraved impulses in front of two, at the same occurence, witnesses.

  It sickens me to the core, that seventeen victims could find the courage to even relate their personal and private ordeals, yet no congregational action is taken to give them some measure of protection and a little satisfaction...let alone that these are memories they will live with for the rest of their lives. If they choose to get outside, professional help, that is also up to them, and is certainly not encouraged.

  It's all about lawsuits and liability and the $$$$$$$$$$ they would have to payout, to victims, past and present if they backed down on this issue.

  Their problem is, however, that there are lawsuits pending, and after the Dateline program airs, there will most likely be many more...so by continuing their current "don't report it unless required... wait on Jehovah... we need two actual witnesses" policies, they probably will wind up paying even more money, than they would have if they had dealt ethically and honorably with these serious issues in the first place.
• 

  hawkaw

  Social services has the right to take the children. They make the call.

  If the parents object and appeal - a hearing is held in family court over the decision.

  The police look at the evidence and if they deem it true they will lay a charge. Then if the defendant (perp) pleads not guilty then and only then will the court listen to the evidence.

  That is where I was trying to go with it

  hawk
• 

  anewperson

  Propolog. There are some 90,000 congregations. If only 1 congregation per 100 (i.e. 1%) has a child molestor being hidden in it then that is 900. If each of the 900 molests only an average of 1 different child per year for 10 years that is 9000 children who get raped.

  Most of us who have followed this thing wold say 1% is low. That there are coverups in at least 30% of the congregations in the United States would not be inconceivable. Now this is speaking about the abuse heaped on children, though abuse also gets heaped on adults.

  Bill is not grinding any personal axe. There was a molestor in his hall and he wasn't going to let the monster keep it up. So just where do you think you get off. I agree with the other poster (Farkel?) who pointed to the Chitty and Greenlees skeletons.

  I can also tell you right now there are child molestation cases leaping off the headlines in Norway (including Skien where Kent Steinhaug is) and blood issue cases in the Netherlands. The issue is international and not going away........ sad to say.