Sciptures? Help???

by lostsheep82 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • lostsheep82
    lostsheep82

    I like that song its catchy..lol

    You know, I dont think the God intended on people being gay, but he also didnt intend for EVERYTHING that happens now to happen. I dont feel wrong about the love I share with a woman because it is a love that everyone needs, and for me i can only get it from a woman.

    i'm not a bad person i've got the kindest heart and there is nothing wrong with me. If I die at armageddon, then at least i found what TRUE unconditional love is.....

    thank you all for your comments. This is such a struggle.

  • Unclepenn1
    Unclepenn1

    Well, this will not be the most popular post I am sure, but you are asking for people's opinions and I felt I should share mine. First of all, I am sorry that you grew up in an abusive situation. That is horrible, and adding a cult like the Watchtower to the mix is all the more distressing. I feel for you, and I am so sorry! Next, I want to paint a scenario for you and see what you think. Lets say that as long as I can remember, I have had a desire to steal things from people. If I am in a store, or even in someone's home, I get "itchy fingers" and I just cannot help myself. I see something I desire, and I go after it. I get great pleasure from it, more so than I do doing the right thing. I think this is the way that God made me..... How would you respond to such a scenario? Would you agree that there are certain behaviors that would best be suppressed? That there are certain things that people need to avoid pursuing, because they are impulses within them that are wrong? Even sinful? I believe your feelings for women are real, but I believe that they are not there from God, nor are they things that should be cultivated. You are confusing identity with behavior. You follow a particular behavior, and use that as a means of your personal identity. I am sorry, this is not what you want to hear, but it is true. I know it is hard to hear, and please, consider this a big hug from me as well, but this is something that God does not approve of at all. He did not make men to be with other men, and women to be with other women. It is apart from His created order. Contrary to some of the other posts, there is no scientific evidence for homosexuality, (although many have tried really hard to find something). I have a male friend whom I love deeply. He is my brother, and I can trust him, and I care for him. This is the kind of love that David and Jonathan had. They loved one another, but not in a perverted sexual way. The reason people say that is because they want to justify their behavior, so they go to the Bible looking for anything that will give them an out to do whatever they wish. I am sorry sweetheart, but it is not consistent with what God has told us, and those who point to genuine love in the Bible and twist it to justify their behavior are leading you astray. I know your understanding of God has been distorted. I would just ask that you look to Jesus. If you want to know what God is like, look to Jesus the Son. He is the embodiment of God Himself, and He revealed everything we need to know. He is compassionate and understands your sins, but wants you to forsake them. He warns us that if our right hand causes us to sin (or a particular relationship), cut it off. He wants us to be holy because that is where we will find freedom. Not in a religion, or an organization, but in a person. In Him. "He who has the Son has life" 1 John 5:12. Respectfully, UP

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Ynot, balanced comments. My comment was not intended to suggest that all gay people are born gay, or that people do not change over time. Rather, LostSheep needs to find and accept who she is and be true to that, without manipulation from family and religion. Religious and family guilt, or fear of Armageddon need to be seen as unhealthy and not worth shaping life around.

  • lostsheep82
    lostsheep82

    Well UP I respect your comments, and somewhat agree with you even though, no, that isn't what any gay person wants to hear. lol.

    Deep deep down, I wonder if I am displeasing God. No, he didn't make women with women, he made man and woman. But he also didn't intend for man to rape, beat, or manipulate woman. He made us with choices. It isn't my choice to feel this way, this is how I've always felt.

    Your illustration was an interesting one and you make a point, however, in this day and age, do you really think God is going to destroy all the gays, and people who don't go to 'church'? That would amount to an aweful lot of people. I use to feel that all who were not JW were going to die at armageddon. To me, and maybe this is a wrong attitude, but if I'm not a JW, I feel I just want to live my life the best I can to try to be honerable to God. But I refuse to live with a man and be in a relationship that makes me feel the way I feel when I am in that relationship. I could almost liken it to you being forced to live with and have relations with another man. That would make you feel dirty, wierd, and very 'not normal'. That is how I feel when I am with a man.

    I agree that it wasn't Gods intent, but I don't think or I should say I'm trying to help make myself beleive that he still loves me. I don't feel I have to have religion as it is man made. At this point, what is real anymore? After finding out the truth about the truth, I almost want to give up on everything, as there are too many false things in this world. I never use to feel this way, but as long as I'm a good person, and try my best, I feel at Armageddon time, God can help me correct my heart, something I cannot do. If he understands, then maybe just like everyone else, us gays will have a chance to feel the way God wants us to. It isn't a behavior for me. It's the only way I can be. It isn't the act of sex that keeps me in this relationship, it is the love two people share.

    I know I may hope to find biblical support, and there isn't any. really. But also, Jesus himself never said anything about homosexuality.

    Love I have which is the greates quality. I hope this in time is good enough....

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you have peace!

    Most here are correct: you are not going to be able to use the Bible to support homosexuality. Between the Law Covenant and the Apostle Paul, you're doomed. Praise JAH, however, there has been a ransom... and the One who paid it is who you... your mother... and your "anointed" father... SHOULD be following and listening to on the matter. And what did HE say? Nothing, specifically. However, when a woman who was caught in the act of adultery, a sin that was specifically included in the Ten [Commandments] (homosexuality was not), HE said:

    "Let the one that is WITHOUT sin... cast the first stone."

    He also said:

    "STOP judging... that you yourselves are not judged."

    I would ask your mother... and especially your father... who is it that they really follow? And if they say that it is the Christ, I would ask them, why, then, do they not do the things that HE says to do? Meaning:

    "If YOU forgive men THEIR trespasses, YOU will be forgiven YOURS."

    God shows mercy to whomever HE wishes to show it, dear one. And while it has been granted to some to "bind upon the earth" (with such binding effective "in the heavens"), the role of a TRUE king and priest of God, the Most Holy One of Israel, whose name is JAH of Armies... is to "offer up sacrifices" on behalf of the people, not condemn them.

    That is what Noah did. It is what Abraham did. And Isaac. Jacob. Moses. Aaron. And Christ.

    You are the one who must answer to God for your deeds, not your parents. They should know and understand that; at least, the one who claims to be "anointed" should. Unfortunately, if he doesn't get that... and turn around and REPENT... he is the one who will be judged. For HIS "bad" deeds. And he has them. We all do.

    I bid you peace. Not in the way the world gives it... but in the way my Lord, the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH gives it: of mind... and heart.

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • Unclepenn1
    Unclepenn1

    >Well UP I respect your comments, and somewhat agree with you even though, no, that isn't what any gay person wants to hear. lol.

    I appreciate your response. You are obviously thinking very much about this subject, and the fact that you did not rip my head off reveals a lot :)

    >Your illustration was an interesting one and you make a point, however, in this day and age, do you really think God is going to destroy all the gays, and people who don't go to 'church'? That would amount to an aweful lot of people.

    Here is what I believe, because it is what the Bible teaches (not any man made religion). I am going to use a few of the 10 commandments as an example of why God WILL condemn most of humanity.

    Humans are in a perpetual state of sin. They have been cursed because of the Fall of Man, and whatever they might try to do to please God, they fail, because of being lawbreakers. Let me give you an example, and this has nothing to do with homosexuality. I will ask you a few questions to make it more personal. Just answer in the privacy if your own heart.

    1. You shall not lie.

    Have you ever lied? How many times in your life do you think you have lied? What do you call someone who tells lies? (hint, it rhymes with fire)

    2. You shall not steal.

    Have you ever stolen anything, even if it is small (regardless of how much it costs)? What do you call someone who steals things?

    3. You shall not take the name of the Lord in vain.

    Have you ever used the title or name of God or Jesus to curse? The Bible says that no blasphemer will enter the Kingdom. Think about it. If God gave you life, and you use his name to curse, that reveals what is in your heart. The Bible says that we are all enemies of God through our wicked works.(Col 1:21). We do not speak well of our enemies.

    4. Have you ever had sex outside of the marriage covenant?

    God made sex for two people who will be united before Him in a covenant. The sexually immoral will not enter the kingdom.

    5. Honor your Father and Mother.
    Have you always obeyed your parents? Did they ever have to tell you to do something twice?

    Just by looking at a few of the commandments, it is obvious that we are all lawbreakers, and in need of forgiveness. This is where the GOOD NEWS comes in. God (Yahweh, Jehovah, El Shaddai, etc) became a man in the person of Jesus Christ. He lived a sinless life, he never lied once, he never blasphemed once, etc. When he was put to death, he was paying for the sins of those people who would repent and trust in him. It was a legal transaction that was taking place. We broke God's laws, Jesus paid the fine with his sinless life and substitutionary death. NO more killing of bulls and sheep. Jesus was the lamb of God and bore the sin of many (see Isa 53).

    I am now in a right relationship with God because I have been forgiven by Him.I do good works now because I have been forgiven and God is my Father, and no longer my enemy. I live for Him and love Him more than my own desires, because He put His spirit in me. This is the gospel, and one of the reasons that the JW's are teaching a false gospel. The JW 'system' can never wash away your sins, because it is based on doing good works to please God. Only a sinless sacrifice can do that, and that is what Jesus did.

    Sweetheart, your problem is more than a struggle over homosexuality. You know in your conscience that it is wrong, and that is why you are looking for something--anything!!--to make you feel like it is right. But that is not how God made you. However, even if you were not attracted to the same sex, you still have a problem with all the other sins against God. You need to be reconciled to Him. Not by church,not by works, but by faith in the sin-bearer, Jesus Christ. HE will save you and give you a new heart and new desires. (Pick up the gospel of John and just read it- in a real translation, not the NWT)

    I used to be a slave to my desires, with sex, drugs, and anything that gave me pleasure. But God is rich in mercy, and he has forgiven me and has given me something far greater than physical pleasure. He has given me joy, and I wake up everyday with joy because I no longer have a nagging conscience.

    This is genuine love. The world (and religions like the WT) offer a false love, that is dependent upon something else (in the WT's case, going to meetings or field service, and if you don't, look out, attitude change towards you). But God's love is real, but it involves following Jesus and forsaking sin.

    I care for you, and am praying for you, honey. If you ever need to talk about anything, please email me. ([email protected]) I will give you the truth in love as best I can. Thanks for listening.

  • Unclepenn1
    Unclepenn1

    >Well UP I respect your comments, and somewhat agree with you even though, no, that isn't what any gay person wants to hear. lol.

    I appreciate your response. You are obviously thinking very much about this subject, and the fact that you did not rip my head off reveals a lot :)

    >Your illustration was an interesting one and you make a point, however, in this day and age, do you really think God is going to destroy all the gays, and people who don't go to 'church'? That would amount to an aweful lot of people.

    Here is what I believe, because it is what the Bible teaches (not any man made religion). I am going to use a few of the 10 commandments as an example of why God WILL condemn most of humanity.

    Humans are in a perpetual state of sin. They have been cursed because of the Fall of Man, and whatever they might try to do to please God, they fail, because of being lawbreakers. Let me give you an example, and this has nothing to do with homosexuality. I will ask you a few questions to make it more personal. Just answer in the privacy if your own heart.

    1. You shall not lie.

    Have you ever lied? How many times in your life do you think you have lied? What do you call someone who tells lies? (hint, it rhymes with fire)

    2. You shall not steal.

    Have you ever stolen anything, even if it is small (regardless of how much it costs)? What do you call someone who steals things?

    3. You shall not take the name of the Lord in vain.

    Have you ever used the title or name of God or Jesus to curse? The Bible says that no blasphemer will enter the Kingdom. Think about it. If God gave you life, and you use his name to curse, that reveals what is in your heart. The Bible says that we are all enemies of God through our wicked works.(Col 1:21). We do not speak well of our enemies.

    4. Have you ever had sex outside of the marriage covenant?

    God made sex for two people who will be united before Him in a covenant. The sexually immoral will not enter the kingdom.

    5. Honor your Father and Mother.
    Have you always obeyed your parents? Did they ever have to tell you to do something twice?

    Just by looking at a few of the commandments, it is obvious that we are all lawbreakers, and in need of forgiveness. This is where the GOOD NEWS comes in. God (Yahweh, Jehovah, El Shaddai, etc) became a man in the person of Jesus Christ. He lived a sinless life, he never lied once, he never blasphemed once, etc. When he was put to death, he was paying for the sins of those people who would repent and trust in him. It was a legal transaction that was taking place. We broke God's laws, Jesus paid the fine with his sinless life and substitutionary death. NO more killing of bulls and sheep. Jesus was the lamb of God and bore the sin of many (see Isa 53).

    I am now in a right relationship with God because I have been forgiven by Him.I do good works now because I have been forgiven and God is my Father, and no longer my enemy. I live for Him and love Him more than my own desires, because He put His spirit in me. This is the gospel, and one of the reasons that the JW's are teaching a false gospel. The JW 'system' can never wash away your sins, because it is based on doing good works to please God. Only a sinless sacrifice can do that, and that is what Jesus did.

    Sweetheart, your problem is more than a struggle over homosexuality. You know in your conscience that it is wrong, and that is why you are looking for something--anything!!--to make you feel like it is right. But that is not how God made you. However, even if you were not attracted to the same sex, you still have a problem with all the other sins against God. You need to be reconciled to Him. Not by church,not by works, but by faith in the sin-bearer, Jesus Christ. HE will save you and give you a new heart and new desires. (Pick up the gospel of John and just read it- in a real translation, not the NWT)

    I used to be a slave to my desires, with sex, drugs, and anything that gave me pleasure. But God is rich in mercy, and he has forgiven me and has given me something far greater than physical pleasure. He has given me joy, and I wake up everyday with joy because I no longer have a nagging conscience.

    This is genuine love. The world (and religions like the WT) offer a false love, that is dependent upon something else (in the WT's case, going to meetings or field service, and if you don't, look out, attitude change towards you). But God's love is real, but it involves following Jesus and forsaking sin.

    I care for you, and am praying for you, honey. If you ever need to talk about anything, please email me. ([email protected]) I will give you the truth in love as best I can. Thanks for listening.

  • Unclepenn1
    Unclepenn1

    sorry for the double post. I dont know what happened there!

  • White Dove
    White Dove

    You can't prove you are right, fine.

    That annointed guy can't prove he is right.

    Ask what makes the Bible better than any other Holy book.

    He'll answer, "Because the Bible is inspired."

    You can tell him, "So are the other Holy books."

    "No, they aren't. The Bible says it's inspired."

    "So do other Holy books, and they contain a Jesus story, too!"

    I don't know if that is true, but it'll work if he doesn't know it, either.

    It's an old lawyers' trick.

  • lostsheep82
    lostsheep82

    UP, you have alot of strength. I enjoy your posts, and respect your faith in Christ.

    Being so recent out of the WT, it will take me a while to de program myself.

    I guess I have the attitude, (even if its a bad one) that we all sin every day and our sins are pretty much equal....ie: lying, stealing, and yes I've done everything the 10 commandments say NOT to do...

    I don't know.....I'm still so lost. I just can't see God destroying that many people as we are ALL sinners and sin every day....

    Thank you UP for your comments:)

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