Disfellowshipped for simply not believing? Quotes needed!

by nicolaou 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • undercover
    undercover

    I don't have any references handy...

    but the publications have stated that simply having doubts or being inactive does not warrant DFing. It's the outward showing of no longer wishing to live under "Bible principles" (i.e. WT rules), that can result in DFing or DAing, such as joining the military, joining in any kind of inter-faith activity, personal conduct that is prohibited (smoking, porneia) as well as apostacy...the expression of no longer accepting the "truth" and making statements against it or promoting other religious ideas.

    If you quietly faded away without making much fuss, there's no cause for DFing. If, however, you stated your viewpoints that conflict with what the WTS teaches you could find yourself being charged with apostasy. The key is how gungho the elders are at chasing down perceived threats to the bORg.

    Technically, just voicing some doubts or concerns should not bring anything other than a sheparding call or two. But as has been testified by members of this board, when it comes to this situation, elders vary in how they respond. Some have related stories of being hounded and DFed in absentia, while others have had almost no one bother them when they made it clear they were leaving.

  • daniel-p
    daniel-p

    It is quite mind-boggling when you realize that you don't even have to voice your opinions to others in order to be DFd. All you need to do is to not BELIEVE. If that doesn't create mental and spiritual anxiety for members of the "faith" than I don't know what does. There was room for Thomas to doubt and ask questions, why not JWs?

  • Dagney
    Dagney

    A former elder told me action can be taken for "willfully disobeying" the FDS. I can't search right now those words, but I would if I could. They can take action for any reason.

    However, it has proven effective time and time again to threaten legal action for civil rights infringement or something like that.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    This is the "Flock Book" section on Apostasy [Unit 5a]

    Apostasy .

    "Apostasy is a standing away from, a falling away, defection,rebellion, abandonment ; it involves teaching false doctrines, supporting or promoting false religion and its holidays or interfaith activities. (Deut . 13 :13, 15 ; Josh.22 :22, ftn . ; Acts 21 :21, ftn. ; 2 Cor. 6 :14, 15, 17, 18 ;2 John 7, 9, 10 ; Rev . 18 :4)

    Those with sincere doubts should be helped, dealt with mercifully . (Jude 22, 23 ; w82 9/1 pp . 20-1 ; w80 8/1 pp . 21-2)

    Apostasy includes action taken against true worship ofJehovah or his established order among his dedicated people . (Jer . 17 :13 ; 23 :15 ; 28 :15, 16 ; 2 Thess. 2 :9, 10)

    Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates .

    If it is learned that a person has taken up association with another religious organization, the matter should be investigated,and if verified, a committee should be formed .If it is clearly established that the person has joined another religion and intends to remain with it, the

    elders would make a brief announcement to the congregationthat such one has disassociated himself. (w86 10/15 p . 31)

    Working secularly for a false religious organization could put one in a position similar to that of one preaching false doctrine . (2 Cor. 6 :14-16)

    Celebrating a false religious holiday would be similar to performing any other act of false worship . (Jer . 7 :16-19)

    The Bible condemns the following :

    Causing divisions and promoting sects This would be deliberate action disrupting the unity

    of the congregation or undermining the confidence of the brothers in Jehovah's arangement .It may involve or lead to apostasy"

    ...................................................................................

    You may notice that the definition here is "to stubbornly hold and speak about "other doctrines. But that is obvious really since they would not know unless a person said he disagreed.

    In practice, as others have said - the elders can interpret it any way they want, and congregations will differ. In this part of the world they seem less likely to want to d/f someone unless he makes a nuisance and they get complaints. I have had frank discussions with elders and they had no inclination to form a committee.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    As shown in the previous quotes and the Reasoning Book article, apostasy is not accepting the Watchtower version of truth.

    From my experience facing a JC, the most important thing in a Judicial Committee is whether or not you accept the F&D slave as being used by Jehovah. I was repeatedly asked "Do you believe Jehovah is using the WTS as the F&D slave?" They only asked once at the whether I believed the Bible, to which my answer was that I had no problems with the Bible.

    You may try to argue the technicality that you believe the WTS is Gods Org but do not accept all of it as truth. This is still not going to help you as you need to realise that the elders predominant aim is to "protect" other JWs and if you openly do not accept everything you are a danger to the thinking of other JWs. The only way to get out of a JC unscathed is to make some statement to the effect that "you have things you do not quite comprehend, but will wait on Jehovah to increase the understanding through his organization". Could you make such a comment?

    -----------

    *** rs p. 34 - p. 37 Apostasy ***

    Apostasy

    Definition: Apostasy is abandoning or deserting the worship and service of God, actually a rebellion against Jehovah God. Some apostates profess to know and serve God but reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others claim tobelieve the Bible but reject Jehovah’s organization.

    Should we expect that apostates will arise within the Christian congregation?1 Tim. 4:1: "The inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons."

    2 Thess. 2:3: "Let no one seduce you in any manner, because [the day of Jehovah] will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction."Some identifying marks of apostates—

    They

    seektomakeotherstheirfollowers,thuscausingsectariandivisions

    Acts 20:30: "From among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves."

    2 Pet. 2:1, 3: "There will also be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them . . . Also, with covetousness they will exploit you with counterfeit words."

    They

    mayprofesstobelieveinChristbuttreatlightlythepreachingandteachingworkheassignedtohisfollowers

    Luke 6:46: "Why, then, do you call me ‘Lord! Lord!’ but do not do the things I say?"

    Matt. 28:19, 20: "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them . . . teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you."

    Matt. 24:14: "This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come."

    They

    mayclaimtoserveGodbutrejecthisrepresentatives,hisvisibleorganization

    Jude 8, 11: "These men, too, indulging in dreams, are defiling the flesh and disregarding lordship and speaking abusively of glorious ones. Too bad for them, because they . . . have perished in the rebellious talk of Korah!"

    Num. 16:1-3, 11, 19-21: "Korah . . . proceeded to get up, together with . . . two hundred and fifty men of the sons of Israel, chieftains of the assembly . . . So they congregated themselves against Moses and Aaron and said to them: ‘That is enough of you, because the whole assembly are all of them holy and Jehovah is in their midst. Why, then, should you lift yourselves up above the congregation of Jehovah?’ . . . [Moses said:] ‘You and all your assembly who are gathering together are against Jehovah. As for Aaron, what is he that you men should murmur against him?’ When Korah got all the assembly together against them at the entrance of the tent of meeting, then Jehovah’s glory appeared to all the assembly. Jehovah now spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying: ‘Separate yourselves from the midst of this assembly, that I may exterminate them in an instant.’"

    Not

    onlydotheyabandonthetruefaithbuttheythen"beat"theirformerassociates,usingpubliccriticismandothermethodstohindertheirwork;theeffortsofsuchapostatesaredevotedtotearingdown,notbuildingup

    Matt. 24:45-51: "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? . . . But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites."

    2 Tim. 2:16-18: "Shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of that number. These very men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some."

    Would faithful Christians welcome apostates into their presence, either personally or by reading their literature?2 John 9, 10: "Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. . . . If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him."

    Rom. 16:17, 18: "I exhort you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them. . . . By smooth talk and complimentary speech they seduce the hearts of guileless ones."Would any serious harm come from satisfying one’s curiosity about the thinking of apostates?Prov. 11:9: "By his mouth the one who is an apostate brings his fellowman to ruin."

    Isa. 32:6: "The senseless one himself will speak mere senselessness, and his very heart will work at what is hurtful, to work at apostasy and to speak against Jehovah what is wayward, to cause the soul of the hungry one to go empty, and he causes even the thirsty one to go without drink itself." (Compare Isaiah 65:13, 14.)How serious is apostasy?2 Pet. 2:1: "These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves."

    Job 13:16: "Before him [God] no apostate will come in."

    Heb. 6:4-6: "It is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but who have fallen away ["if they then commit apostasy," RS], to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame."

  • Dagney
    Dagney

    I'm worried,

    I was told by an elder 'you win no battles with elders.'

    I would wiggle out of a confrontation. The arguments don't matter. They interpret everything, literature, bible...just everything as they see fit. Even if they are looking to "save" you, if you don't answer exactly how they want, you are toast.

    Take your time, think about your strategy, what you want looking forward, and act cautiously.

  • oompa
    oompa

    Nauseating...but I may need it soon.........oompa

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