Riiiibbbbiiit Baxter sure did make all of us laugh!
I was a kid at the time and just loved that frog.
I thought the talk was stupid but loved the froggy:)
To SO CAL: What CO's and DO's do we all know?
by IreallydidwalkoutofaKH 93 Replies latest jw friends
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Dagney
From southern California, does anyone know Richard Pierce????
No, sorry...doesn't ring a bell.
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AMNESIAN
This topic brings back memories, some good, most regretful:
As you may remember, current GB member Samuel Herd was the District Overseer for the Los Angeles area back in the early 1980s. I can still remember his twangy voice echoing throughout the Norco assembly hall. When he spoke, the auditorium sounded as if one was sitting in a Texas cattle show instead of at the Faithful Slave’s feet.c
Herd was the CO during the time I was studying to become a JW around 1970. Though he was considered a marvelous speaker by JWs, in time I came to realize that this was only by JW standards. He was extraordinary among them only because so many of the rest were dreadful. By the time I got baptized in 1972, Herd had moved on and Joseph C. Howard had arrived as the CO.
One of the most memorable traveling overseers in my lifetime was D.O. J.D. Howard. He was a large African American brother who seemed to always be pre-occupied with vilifying the fads of the black friends from the podium. The man was a certifiable high chair tyrant who was known for going on tirades regarding people’s dress and grooming. I personally saw him chew people out for the most trivial and insignificant matters. There was no love lost when he got reassigned.
In personal, one-on-one interaction Howard and his wife were very down-to-earth, compassionate people. Company tyrant though he often demonstrated himself to be in his public persona, he (and his wife) had a keen wit and sense of humor. Despite his life-long loyalty to the organization, he gave evidence that he did not agree with all of their corporate policies---post-secondary education, for one. My closest friend, a regular pioneer, was at the time contemplating pursuing a teaching credential. Though a wonderful person in so many respects, she was, and is, very much a people-pleaser and knew such aspirations and career ambitions were absolutely verboten given the '70s' JW culture. When she asked Howard his opinion, after not trusting mine, (as the dutiful JW woman consulting only Jehovah's "spirit-appointed servants" for permission, forgiveness, clarification, counsel, direction, blessing, approval...), surprisingly, he responded "...nothing wrong with teaching black kids to read."
A heretical viewpoint, to be sure.
This would've been sometime in the early-mid '70s. Obviously he intended this view for her ears only, not intended for general dissemination and one he'd never have advanced from the platform. She did not reveal his comment to me at the time, her being the...let's see how was it Howard himself always put it in his talks... "sterling, steadfast, stalwart, (he loved his alliterations!) shoulder-to-shoulder Christian" she was. It wasn't until years later, while lamenting having foolishly ignored his counsel, that she divulged it to me. I wasn't shocked. Howard himself had a sharp, bright intellect and clearly valued knowledge (though one of his favorite, and most annoying, expressions was "...thus says the WT") . I seem to have some vague recollection of his referencing his own past education and construction skills prior to his JW honcho career.
A brief Howard incident: During the CO's talk following the Thursday night book study and "Continue in Things Learned" at the KH during one of Howard's visits in the early '70s, he scanned the audience for someone to read the bible passage on which his discourse was to be based. He hadn't asked for a volunteer so the air was not filled with the usual eager palms of worshipful publishers. He looked from one side of the KH to the other until he spotted the congregation's very prominent celebrity-elder---a super-popular, affluent entertainer who, undoubtedly, had extended him a very generous green handshake. Howard decided to award the coveted privilege of reading the scripture to Celebrity-Elder's wife. He called on her. Immediately there was a barely-audible collective gasp, followed by a deafening hush, as all eyes turned toward Sister C-E. "Hours" ticked by as every eye in the congregation watched her turn to her husband and, whispering, consult with him. Howard, too, observed this drama, evidently clueless as to its cause or import. The young ministerial servant who stood in the aisle fidgeted, his eyes darting left-to-right-to-left again, microphone dangling from his hand, self-consciously awaiting instruction. Finally Brother C-E turned from his wife, took the mic from the relieved MS, handed it to the Mrs. She took the mic, held her bible and haltingly read the passage Howard had cited. She finished, handed the mic to her husband, who returned it to the MS. Howard, obviously baffled but likely starting to figure out his blunder, launched into his closing lecture, brimming with the usual dispiriting damn and faint praise.
Before beginning his closing remarks following the public talk and WT study that following Sunday morning, Howard stood on the platform and addressed the congregation, extemporaneously [paraphrased]: "Before I begin I need to offer a heartfelt apology to the congregation. I unknowingly committed a serious error. I unintentionally violated theocratic procedure and I apologize for the offense I caused the congregation and for grieving Jehovah's spirit." Howard had committed the most grievous violation of "theocratic" propriety, that of soliciting public utterance from a scandalized, disgraced JW woman, one who had only just been reinstated (and, therefore, still under restriction) in time for his upcoming visit, after having been disfellowshipped her obliviously indulgent husband: she'd carried on a notorious extramarital affair that had alternately fueled titillation and self-righteous disgust across Witness World. It was likely Howard's first visit in his new assignment and he had simply not been informed.
Seemingly sincerely chagrined, Howard went on to deliver what, by most informed accounts, was one of the most subdued talks of his tenure as then-CO and eventual DO.I last spoke with him 10 years ago over breakfast in my kitchen. Sensing my general mood and attitude, in his pragmatic style he urged me not to "tire out," in the weary tone of an old man who himself was exhausted both mentally and physically (they were departing for a new assignment). He had no way of knowing, as I could not let on to him, just how completely too late he was, how thoroughly done I had been for some time with the whole JW existence. It would be just a short time later I'd summon the resolve to physically leave.
AMNESIAN
7/1972-2/2001 -
Dagney
I have to say, JC was very very kind and outreaching to my mother. He asked her to pray for him multiple times.
I get a little critical because his manner from the stage, grumpy, yelling at the "young folk" like he is just tired of hearing about their shennigans, showed how out of touch he was. We just didn't need "out of touch". It was clear he didn't feel well, was just damn tired. And. of course, what were his options? He had to keep doing it, no wonder he was tired!
But still, to inflict that attitude and manner on thousands, well, it didn't draw people to the org. More damage I think.
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minimus
AMNESIAN, I LOVE your writing style!
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Jeremy C
J C Howard ( not J D ) ...
Ah yes, sorry about that blunder. It has been so long since I’ve seen him speak that I forget his precise name.
In personal, one-on-one interaction Howard and his wife were very down-to-earth, compassionate people.
I should have expanded upon my comments regarding J.C. Howard. I suppose I was a bit harsh without mentioning any of the man’s positive qualities. Although I found his talks to be a very crass and merciless back in the early 1990s, I did notice a drastic change when I last saw him speak in late 2005 at a Norco circuit assembly. In late 2005, he seemed feeble, and physically weak. He was now walking with a cane and obviously in poor health.
He seemed very docile and compassionate in his talk regarding performing service; which was a 180 degree turn from his style of only a decade ago. I found it odd that his talk seemed to go completely against the basic theme of the assembly which seemed to be "you people aren’t doing enough, you need to get off your butts and do more". This was the general spirit of the talks by the Circuit and District Overseers during the two days. Not so with J.C. Howard though.
Howard’s talk emphasized the need for overseers to be gentle, compassionate, using upbuilding words to motivate instead of criticism. He even stated that coercion and condemnation should never be used; since the friends have do deal with enough of this in the world. I was impressed to say the least. I sat there thinking: "This guy actually gets it."
I believe that harsh and demanding traveling overseers often go through personal transformations when they themselves go through personal crisis such as major health problems, or when they must resign from the traveling work and are no longer supported by the headquarters. Sometimes a deeper sense of compassion and understanding comes to them in the midst of their own crisis; as it does with so many others.
regarding Bill Baxter.............Do you remember his ...........RRRRiiiiiiiiiiiiiiBBBBBBBBBBBiiiiiiiiiiitttttttttttttttt take. It was something to do with acting like a frog and not taking action. I don't know exactly, I was 12 and bored to death in the Norco assembly hall, but the rrrrriiiiiibbbbbbbbit take caught my attention!
Regarding Baxter, I remember this talk quite well, as it was always commented on by my parents after the fact.
The basic thrust of the talk was that worldly people are continuously influencing Jehovah’s Witnesses to compromise their Christians standards gradually - just a little bit at a time. He stated that the world will tempt us to walk into its ways gradually; going a little bit further each time, as if we were tempted to walk out into the water of a pond (the world).
He said that the world is like a pond filled with frogs. The frogs will constantly tempt you to "wade into the pond" just a little bit, only to where the water is knee-deep. Thus, he would repeat the line: "wade in . . . . . . knee deep . . . . knee deep. . . . knee deep. . . . knee deep."
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willyloman
??? Shropshire
It was Pat Shropshire and you are right about his demise: shameful.
Amnesian: Great post, especially liked the last paragraph: been there, done that!
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LisaRose
I lived in SO. CA (Ventura) from 1969 to 1989. The only name I recognizd was Sunudko. I used to go to that igloo looking Convention center in Woodland Hills. Nice building. Does anyone from there know Weldon Howze. He seemed to know everyone. Never a CO as he was totally gay (non practicing I assume).
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Dagney
I lived in SO. CA (Ventura) from 1969 to 1989. The only name I recognizd was Sunudko. I used to go to that igloo looking Convention center in Woodland Hills. Nice building. Does anyone from there know Weldon Howze. He seemed to know everyone. Never a CO as he was totally gay (non practicing I assume).
I moved away from that area in 1969. WH is a good friend of friends of mine. Met several times, seems nice. I see his name come through in JW emails.
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Hortensia
I was out before most of those COs came along. I remember the names Sunudko and Kormendi. Was Kormendi the guy who wanted everyone to make yogurt pie for him?