The first time I've ever read anything on how to non conform and not non conform . It's clear they do go beyond what is written so when they do is it time to non conform ? Interesting how they do say that even if something doesn't sound right,coming from the org., to just accept it without any questioning as to the origin , isn't that like not using your trained conscience , so they will only use that whenever the WTBTS says it's ok .HMMMMMM getting a little confused on their intent .
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 08-24-08 WT Study (AUTHORITY)
by blondie 21 Replies latest jw friends
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Mary
3. As Christians, we take a position different from that of the world. It is not that we blindly do whatever we are told. On the contrary, at times we must refuse to submit to the will of others even if they have positions of authority.
Riiiight. And if you believe that crap, I've got a bridge to sell you. If JW's do not "blindly do whatever" they are told, how do they explain the Governing Body's position on "obeying" them, as discribed in the Douglas Walsh trial:
Q. If a member of Jehovah's Witnesses took the view himself that that prophesy was wrong and said so he would be disfellowshipped?
if the whole organisation believes one thing, even though it be erroneous and somebody else starts on his own trying to put his ideas across then there is disunity and trouble, there cannot be harmony
A. Yes, if he said so and kept persisting in creating trouble, becauseQ. Unity at all costs?
Unity at all costs
A.Such examples show that, historically, God's people have taken a firm stand for what is right, regardless of the consequences. They did not give into men simply to curry favor with them; neither should we.
And of course, we have many modern day examples of those who have "taken a firm stand for what is right, regarless of the consequences." I wonder if the countless examples including Ray Franz, Ed Dunlap, Jim Penton, Barbara Anderson or Bill Bowen ring a bell.........
Rather, we are determined to accept jehovah's authority over that of any human. When man's law conflicts with God's law, the decision as to what we will do is not difficult. Like the apostles in the first century, we obey God as ruler rather than men.
Wow, really?? What about when the Governing Body's man made laws conflict with God's Laws......who are you supposed to obey then?? You got 3 guesses and the first two don't count.
What has helped us to accept God's authority? We adopt the position stated at Proverbs 3:5, 6: "Trust in jehovah with all your heart and do not lean upon your own understanding.
Hmmm.......What about the first paragraph that says we don't "blindly do whatever we are told"?? If we don't "lean upon our own understanding", how exactly do you know that you're not blindly following someone?? Ya......better not think about that one for too long.....
7. We accept Jehovah's authority and obey him even if we do not fully understand the reason for some requirement set out in his Word.
I'd really like an example of one scripture where someone might not understand the moral implications in it. The bible itself is pretty straight forward when it comes to what is right and what is wrong. It's not "Jehovah's authority" that causes mass confusion; it's the bizarre and legalistic, never-ending bullshit man made rules that the Governing Body lay out that cause all the problems. Good example: Will you accept fractions of blood or the use of a dialysis machine whereby your blood temporarily leaves your body??
8. The Bible tells us that we should have our "perceptive powers trained to distinguish both right and wrong." (Heb. 5:14) Hence, our goal is not to obey God's laws in a mechanical fashion; rather, we want to be able to "distinguish both right and wrong" based on Jehovah's standards.
And what happens when your "perceptive powers" tells you that the WTB&TS is not "the truth"?
Consider the comments made some time ago by a Christian named Sharon: "Because of disregarding Jehovah's law, I have contracted the deadly disease AIDS. I often look back at the many happy years I had in serving Jehovah." She recognized that it was foolish to break Jehovah's laws and that she should have treated them with the greatest respect. Jehovah's laws are for our own protection. Sharon died just seven weeks after writing the above words.
Yes......how about some examples of all the Witnesses who died in the past due to the Organization's ban on organ transplants or bone marrow transplants----something that is now deemed a "conscience matter". Was this the Will of God, or the braindead foolishness of a bunch of nutbars at Brooklyn Bethel?
Accepting Jehovah's authority involves responding to counsel based on his Word. For example, the faithful and discreet slave class has been admonishing us to "stay awake and keep our senses." (1 Thess. 5:6) Such counsel is very appropriate during these last days in which many are "lovers of themselves, lovers of money."
Ah yes.....now we finally get to the heart of the matter: Accepting Jehovah's authority means obeying the "faithful and discreet slave class", even though they've been crying wolf for the last 130 years. I was wondering when they were going to get around to this.....
(2 Tim. 3:1, 2) Could we be affected by such prevailing attitudes? Yes. Non-spiritual goals could lull us into spiritual sleep, or we might adopt a materialistic attitude. (Luke 12:16-21) Hence, how wise it is to accept the Bible's counsel and avoid the
self-serving lifestyle that is so prevalent in Satan's world!-1 John 2:16.I had lunch with a friend of mine yesterday. One of her son's best friends just signed a two-year contract with the Toronto Maple Leafs with a salary that starts at the very bottom: $465,000/year. My brother was absolutely fantastic at sports and wanted to train to become a professional hockey player. Even his coach was impressed and told mom and dad that he had alot of potential but would have to do alot of training (naturally). Needless to say, the elders put the kabobs on that idea and my brother now makes $19.00 at his present job. Yes, "how wise" it was for him to "accept" not the bible's council, but that of a bunch of sexually repressed, emotionally retarded idiots.
We must always remember that Jesus is the true Head of the congregation. (Col. I: 18) That is one reason why we humbly submit to the direction of appointed elders, giving them" more than extraordinary consideration."
Wow.....so now if we don't obey the elders, we're disobyed Jesus himself? What if that elder is a drunk (90% chance of this happening) or worse,even a pedophile. Are we to obey him then?
We have good reason to uproot any trace of ambition we might see in ourselves.
Ya....don't worry. I think this religion has just about uprooted any trace of ambition that the R&F might have. This has resulted in numerous Witnesses becoming depressed, becoming alcoholics, frustrated, angry and resentful, not to mention being saddled with a job they probably hate due to the fact they never got a decent education.
Once again, the illogical nonsense which spews forth from the pages of the Watchtower, shows what a bunch of control freaks the "Slave Class" really are.
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whereami
I've been "in" for about 30yrs. I've never seen this much "you MUST obey us no matter what" crap as i've seen in the past few years. What's going on up there?
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Pistoff
great job, Blondie; my compliments to the chef.
Just a few reactions:
1. Is not interesting how the watchtower Society dismisses all protesters by calling them stubborn or saying they're just trying to make a political point? Does that mean that Martin Luther King was just stubborn? How about Rosa Parks? Apparently they were just stubborn, just trying to make a political point. Never mind that they helped secure freedoms for millions of people.
2. It's interesting to hear the watchtower Society fondly remember the days of the early Christians; if you read much about the early Christians, you realize they didn't listen to the apostles either. Early Christianity was at least as fragmented as it is today. The apostle Paul's letters are really proof of this; he is constantly exhorting them to be unified in one line of thought, an indication that they were not unified. The history of the early church is the story of a power grab; the first 200 years of the Church saw scrambling as different men and factions sought to establish their viewpoint about who Jesus really was, and what happened.
3. And of course, you had to know that Satan was going to come into the picture sooner or later. The watchtower always does its best to demonize those who question it by associating them with the devil.
The most interesting part of this study? The fact that they mention Diatrophes. Isn't it interesting that Diatrophes actually said "wicked words" about the apostles, but nowhere does Paul instruct that he be removed from the congregation? It puts into perspective the completely insane policy that the watchtower Society has about excommunicating anyone who dares to question its stupid policies.
4. I love the line indicating that we wouldn't know the truth without the watchtower Society. Here are some truths I wouldn't know without the watchtower Society:
a) two people have to witness child sex abuse in order for it to have happened
b) organ transplants are actually cannibalism
c) the heart has feelings and emotions of its own!
d) water, not ice, sculpted the Earth's mountains!
e) aluminum cookware will kill you!
f) Jesus never had a beard! Oh wait, he did have a beard.
g) we're in the judgment time.... no wait, we are not in the judgment time
h) a generation is not what everyone else thinks it is; no no a generation is actually a group of people!
i) vaccinations are evil, they are pus!
j) germs never caused a single disease in the world!
That's it, I give up; I could go on all day.
Have a great vacation, Blondie. -
heathen
Yah LOL@mary Like the WTBTS hasn't shoved their opinions down everybody's throat, but better watch out for those elders and their opinions. When wrong they are merely imperfect humans but aside from that everybody should just shrug it off as part of Gods plan and never mention it again. Very peculiar stuff .
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Mary
Pistoff said: The most interesting part of this study? The fact that they mention Diatrophes. Isn't it interesting that Diatrophes actually said "wicked words" about the apostles, but nowhere does Paul instruct that he be removed from the congregation? It puts into perspective the completely insane policy that the watchtower Society has about excommunicating anyone who dares to question its stupid policies.
Not only that Pistoff, but the scriptures say that the apostle John was reprimanding Diotrephes for his attempts to disfellowship others:
"...3 John 10: "...Also, not being content with these things, neither does he himself receive the brothers with respect, and those who are wanting to receive them he tries to hinder and to throw out of the congregation...."
The very fact that Diotrephes was badmouthing the apostles, yet was not disfellowshipped for it, speaks volumes.
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bobld
Thanks.Blondie
Q3.It is not that we blindly do whatever we are told? You got that right,FDS/GB.I would never sell my home for you guys.I would never retire early from my job for you guys.I would never believe your wishy-washy stories ie Blood fractions,voting,what is a generation,the end time.
Q6 So what is God telling us...to believe him and the Bible.He will make our path straight not some knucklehead in N.Y.
Q9 Principle.Do you the FDS/GB really know the meaning of that word.
Q11 flee from fornication.See bookstudy.Who was it that Jehovah asked Hosea to marry.
No,No,No FDS/GB we do not follow your style of authority.
Bob
PS:I have a question.If Satan is so intelligent why did he kill Jesus?You would think he would in all his power kept him alive to defeat God's plan.
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BluesBrother
Accept
Jehovah's(The WTS) AuthorityA pretty thinly disguised appeal to the r & f to do as they are would..Believe what we tell you, Accept all the s***t from the elders without complaining..wait in line for the paradise that never comes...
3.It is not that we blindly do whatever we are told. On the contrary, at times we must refuse to submit to the will of others even if they have positions of authority.
If we "must" then we are just doing what somebody else, our chosen authority, has told us to do ...It is just the same, since they are doing what they are told
The questions in para 11 could be damaging . How many kids will read "Do they have a better life than the one they enjoyed in........" and think "YES !"
My old Schoolmaster was wont to enter the classroom and declare that the class must "Sit up, shut up and look intelligent" I see the same attitude in this article - telling them that they must just do what they are told. The sad thing is that I know some older ones who really believe that it God is pleased with them if they take without complaint every problem that the elders cause them....lets hope a younger generation sees through it
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Great conducting Blondie, and comments by all.
PasswordProtected made a great observation on JWS, so I can't take credit => http://www.jwsupportforum.com/index.php?topic=847.msg9032#msg9032
This lesson on authority and they only, barely, mention Jesus twice:
13. In accepting Jehovah's authority, we need to guard against an independent spirit. A haughty attitude can cause us to feel that we do not need guidance from anyone. For example, we might resist counsel given by those taking the lead among God's people. God has established an arrangement by which a faithful and discreet slave class provides spiritual food at the proper time. (Matt. 24:45-47) We should humbly recognize that this is the way Jehovah is caring for his people today. Be like the faithful apostles. When some disciples were stumbled, Jesus asked the apostles: "You do not want to go also, do you?" Peter replied: "Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life." -John 6:66-68.
16. We must always remember that Jesus is the true Head of the congregation. (Col. I: 18) That is one reason why we humbly submit to the direction of appointed elders, giving them" more than extraordinary consideration." (1 Thess. 5:12, 13) Of course, congregation elders can show that they too are submissive by being careful to convey to the congregation God's message, not their own opinions. They "do not go beyond the things that are written" in order to promote some personal idea.-1 Cor. 4:6.
In para. 13, one would conclude that the FDS has as much authority as Jesus. To think indepentently of the FDS would be rebellion against Jesus, eh? But who has the sayings of everlasting life? Clearly, the FDS is on par with the Sanhedrin, who thought they had godly authority, but didn't.
Another false conclusion in para. 16. Jesus is head of the congregation, so submit to the elders. Easy enough to say instead, Jesus is head of the congregation, so submit to the Pope! Really, Jesus is head of the congregation, so submit to Jesus. Is that so hard?
There you have it. Jesus was barely mentioned TWICE in the material. His name wasn't mentioned in any comments at the KH today... except in my comment, of course. Interestingly "Satan" was placed in the article FOUR times and got plenty of comments. One can only conclude that Satan is twice as important as Jesus in the subject of Jehovah's Authority. Even "Sharon" was named twice in the article. I guess she's equal to Jesus' authority. Maybe Jesus should have been a bad example so that he could have gotten more WT press.
Leaving out Jesus in a study about authority is about like giving an hour dissertation on a monarchy, but only mentioning "king" or "queen" a couple of times, and only in passing. Instead, this lesson heightened in conclusion with the importance of following the FDS... which would be the equivalent of the court jester in the king's court.How can they even claim to call themselves "Christian"?
B the X
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still_in74
When some of the disciples had difficulty accepting what Jesus was teaching on one point, saying: “This speech is shocking; who can listen to it?” they “went off to the things behind and would no longer walk with him.” Peter, with the right view of Jesus’ teaching authority, realized there was no other place to go for truth and so remained in the way of life.—John 6:60, 66-69.
Ah yes of course! JESUS = WTS !!! One problem here WTS/FDS/GB - JESUS WASNT WRONG! The disciples just misunderstood him!
YOU WERE WRONG!!!!!!!!!! - NOT THE SAME!!!!!!!!!! - COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!!!!!!!!! - Jesus never made mistakes, the apostles made mistakes in life but NEVER made mistakes in prophecy - BIG DIFFERENCE!!!! - WTS makes mistakes in teaching, prophecy, life, policy, everything!
You are imperfect uninspired men - How the hell do you get off holding your teachings next to those of Christ????