Help Requested PO and his wife coming over tomorrow for 'study'

insearchoftruth

My wife had a bible study with the sister and her daughter actually yesterday evening (I am guessing that the daughter needed some time), I was in the living room at the time, and I will post the notes from this conversation later this evening (at work now, don't have them here). My wife had wanted to learn how to read the bible from them, but they of course manipulated her to a book study within two weeks!

At the end of this bible study (they started the Bible Teach book, got to paragraph 13 in chapter one) the sister asked my wife if I still wanted to talk to her husband on Wednesday, I said I would be very interested, but I want my wife and I to both be involved in the discussions (want to have her hear what we are talking about, firstly if I can ask an interesting question, and secondly I want her to see I am not a raging apostate to the gentleman - and he is a pretty nice guy).

As I had posted last week, the session with them last week was I feel pretty much a disaster, they kept steering me to Trinity and then just really got nowhere (was supposed to have been Michael=Jesus and Generation), so I have no idea what they are planning for this week, I am guessing he will be ready with Michael, and I will be a 'very interested listener' and not talk the doctrinal issues until I get a chance to question my wife at another time....any other ideas what to talk about, or questions to ask.

As suggested by others......I AM STAYING AS FAR AWAY FROM DOCTRINE AS I CAN....at least the core doctrines - got way too wrapped up in bible hopscotch last time and was very, very frustrated afterwards!

Any ideas???

By the way, I think they are preparing to drop the 'education bomb' on my wife, the sister asked her what she was studying, are you studying to get a job or get a better job, and then said she would look out for 'secretarial' jobs for her where she works (the local school offices). Wouldn't that be a fine use of two associates degrees.

civicsi00

I warned ya, man. Those JW's are tricky.

Hopefully the PO will bring up Michael and you guys can focus on that. If not, then I have another suggestion (but this may have to wait another week or two):

Are you familiar with the March 15, 1990 Watchtower? If not, I suggest you read up on the "requirements" they brought out in one of the articles in that magazine. If you compare what they state there with what they were ACTUALLY teaching back in 1919, I think that would make for a very interesting conversation with the PO because the WT didn't live up to those requirements. But it takes some time and research to get it all down on paper and ready.

jgnat

You can prepare for the "education bomb" by asking your wife, before they get there, what else she gets out of education other than financial gain. What are the side-benefits, such as a more flexible mind, a broader view of the world, etc. etc.

If you let them take the lead on the subject matter, they are going to want to follow the Bible Teach book. The first step is to establish the bible's infallability. Then the obligation to follow what the bible says. Throw in a few scriptures on the sneaky wiles of the devil and how he doesn't want you to hear this stuff, and they have you primed to follow their agenda.

You can short-circuit this presentation by insisting on solid bible study which includes reading all the scriptures quoted in context. The whole chapter. What was the author's full intent?

If you know your bible well enough, challenge them on the flimsy doctrines. Like paradise earth. Or the anointed. Or the Faithful and Discreet Slave. Ask to see the scripture (s). There should be more than one proof text. That's another earmark of a good study. Scripture reinforces scripture and the re-occuring themes will show up over and over and over again.

M.J.

I studied for 2.5 years. I know how it works.

Be polite. Respect what they're saying. Act like a willing student...someone that wants to understand where they are coming from. In reality, you will learn a lot from them, how they think, and what JWs are about. This will actually help you. Learning about JWs here really doesn't give you a complete picture. Ask questions as if you are genuinely curious how to resolve the logical dilemmas that the info brings up. Not like you're trying to trap them. It may take a bit of damage control to get back into the "non hostile" category, btw.

To be prepared, use the Lingle Bible Teach link I mentioned to you before.

If they don't answer to your satisfaction, just look troubled, but seemingly not wanting to cause too much of a disruption over it. Ultimately they will want to move on. Their thing is that once you get the "big picture" all the little pieces of the puzzle will all suddenly fit together. Politely allow them to do move on.

Also, you have to be selective on what to ask about. Save up for a good one, but don't stop to analyze stuff too often or be "nit picky" or else they'll want to separate you from your wife into two separate studies...Because you're too slow! Also try not to get too sidetracked into off-topic doctrinal stuff. Ask if such and such doctrine will be discussed in the book later on. Defer discussion on that topic until "we cover it".

M.J.

Sorry, I misunderstood. You will not be participating in your wife's study.

Just say you're interested in what your wife is learning. Talk about football.?

Offer them a beer.

Just say you're being cautious, as you would be cautious with any religious group that came to teach you and your family that they represent God. It's only natural to have questions about that...

insearchoftruth

If I am not in her study, could I do a follow-up with her and at that time we read the full chapters?

2112

As has been said be polite but you can still be firm. They came to you to answer your questions and to prove to you that they are Gods chosen religion. The burden is on them to prove to you what they say, it is not in you to believe everthing they say. Also you and your wife can and should insist on using the Bible only. Just politly tell them that if they go through the Bible Teach, or any other book, then they are studing that book not the Bible, and you want to study the Bible.

Keep them on Michael, don't let them change the subject. It will be difficult as that is all they know how to do. They make a point and move on, they don't want you to think about it, just accept it - after all they are there to teach you. That is their mind set.

besty

I would like to some how or other get the PO and his wife to tell my wife about the appointment of the FDS, what would be a good slant to get this topic started.....is there a good question I can ask that may cause him to go into a discussion of this?
They are coming over tomorrow evening!

You could say that this claimed appointment in 1919 is extraordinary. Wow - chosen by Jesus to be his sole channel - that is truly extraordinary. So there must be extraordinary evidence to back it up - right? After all, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. "I have a $1 in my pocket" doesn't require much back up, but "My house is carved out of rhinestone" might need a bit more proof. LOL - they like illustrations the ole JW's....

Before asking to see the evidence for the 1919 appointment - because without that appointment they are just another religion like all the rest right? See if they will admit this. If they do you can ask if they would agree in that case that 1919 is their core doctrine. Also ask what year they first published this belief that Jesus chose them exclusively in 1919. There is a significant number of years in which Jesus didn't bother them with this trivial piece of information.

Now there is a can of worms right there in front of them.

Suggest to them you are going to undertake a project to find out what the JW's were teaching in the run up to 1919 - thats the basis on which Jesus chose them right? Their teachings - specifically the unique ones that made them different. Tell them you are going to dig into those early 1900's teachings with a toothcomb to see what Jesus saw in them. See if they try to diassuade you from that.

Should be interesting - keep us posted....

M.J.

If I am not in her study, could I do a follow-up with her and at that time we read the full chapters?

If she's game, that's not a bad idea. You have to be cautious about how you do that or you'll scare her off. Don't make it like you're interrogating her. Be more like, "I wonder why it states this, when my understanding is that. What do you think?"

kzjw

If you're hoping to do Michael=Jesus you might want to look at my thread from earlier in the week...

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/164716/1.ashx

Just be a little stonger and take control. If the PO insist on Bible Hopscotch, explain that you feel reading just a verse does not allow for the interpretation in the context of the scripture written. This is known as eisegesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisegesis . Tell him that you find that method of teaching unfair, and it surely must allow for man's interpretation. Assure him that you want to follow, God and not lend to man's understanding, surely the PO would want to do likewise.

Help Requested PO and his wife coming over tomorrow for 'study'

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