by cameo-d 14 Replies latest watchtower bible
Didn't Jesus say survivors would be "changed in the twinkling of an eye" ?
Didn't Jesus say the dead would be resurrected first, before this change occurs?
Didn't Jesus say he was going to prepare a place and we would be "taken" there to be with him?
Dosen't the idea of New Jeresulam and rebuilding this planet to paradise earth conflict with that?
How can it be both?
What do you expect to happen after armageddon?
the question I always ask myself is why did God make us fleshly in the first place if our future is to be spiritual?
why the earth, lol why the universe for that matter?
if these are not meant then why goto all that trouble, personally I prefer an 'earthly hope' lol maybe thats another JW appeal for me, I never really thought on it before but going to heaven is not what I want, staying here and having time to exploer my full potential, they say we only use a tiny amount of our brains potential what if we could use it all? I'm an Artist and love the creative process to have a chance to explore it for a century or two with no pressure from time always sitting on my shoulder telling me it's running out. Lol i'm nearly 40 but I only just feel like i've become who I am, I always felt lost in my twenties, I want to enjoy who I am but already my body is telling me i'm on the downward spiral whatever my mind says, and i'm left screaming in my mind "It's not fair, I need more Time!!!"
Reniaa
Heaven and eternal life on a paradise earth are also myths.
I no longer worry about Armegeddon and I try to live my life NOW to the fullest. If the creator is anything like Jehovah, I have no time for him anyway. Wouldn't want to live forever under a psychotic sociopath who changes his mind and kills even babies when he's pissed off.
the question I always ask myself is why did God make us fleshly in the first place if our future is to be spiritual?
Maybe earth is a 'testing ground', who knows? The bible is full of references that strongly indicates that we do have a spirit that goes on after we die, not "soul sleep":
Ecclesiastes 9:5: "For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.
The context shows that this verse is not speaking about soul sleep, just as "they have no more reward" is not denying the resurrection of the dead. To show that the author of Ecclesiastes did not believe in soul sleep, one can cite the following verse from the same book: Ecclesiastes 12:7: "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was; and the spirit shall return to God who gave it. That is, the soul has an existence independent of the body, and returns to God at death, etc."Genesis 35:18: And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died)...Note that, when Rachel died, her soul departed. It didn't "fall asleep".
Mt. 10:28: “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in gehenna.”
1 Corinthians 15: 42 - 49: " So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven."
Luke 16: 19-31: The Rich Man and Lazarus: "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.' "He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' "Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.' 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
This is a particularly difficult passage for the WTS to try and explain away and there reasoning is quite laughable. Since when did Jesus use "false doctrines" as parables to drive a point home? That is absolutely ludicrous to suggest he would do anything like that. Jesus used examples of things that the average Jew was familiar with and could understand.
Mary, that was an interesting post. I know I am going a little off topic here, but the scripture you quoted from Luke sounds more like a scene from Dante's Inferno and it just seems out of place as a Jesus story.
I just went back and read Luke 16 and the beginning of that chapter doesn't seem like what you would expect from a "Christian teaching". This guy is about to get fired, so while the boss is still out, he falsifies the paperwork cancelling debts to get in good with the bossman's debtors. He's looking out for himself so in case he's down and out in the future they will owe him a favor. Then the boss comes in and finds out and praises the crook for being so clever. And then this verse where it seems that Jesus advocates premeditated ulterior motives. (and justifies it by alluding that the person you are stealing it from was using it in "wrong ways" anyway?)
9 "I tell you, make friends for yourselves by using the riches of the world that are so often used in wrong ways. So when riches are a thing of the past, friends may receive you into a home that will be forever.
Yeah, I know it's bending the topic...but can you explain this? Am I reading it right?
Reading 1 Corinthians 15:42-49 you placed there took me aback - thanks! I may use this one day.
I BELIEVE ARMAGEDDON HAS ALREADY HAPPENED. REV. 16:16-19. THIS IS TALKING ABOUT THE BABYLON THAT EXISTED IN THE OLD TESTAMENT.
After Armageddon? Jesus finally arrives.
Q.: What happens after Armageddon?
A.: You wake up and realize it was only a dream.
