by LoneWolf 24 Replies latest jw friends
My goodness, Tom!
This is nothing short of freaking brilliant. Did you write all of this?
It will be useful, in whole or in part, to anyone wanting to write a DA letter or question (protect oneself from) one of the elders, handling a judicial investigation into threats of expulsion as well as others I haven't mentioned.
Dang, this is a masterpiece.
tj
Hi Lone Wolf,
I can only second the consensus here about your brilliance. It was such a clear, onpoint letter!
Pat
Lordy Wolf, quite a letter!!!
ashi
Hello LoneWolf,
just to say : a very good
and well written letter. I'll comment more later.
Btw I do agree with LDH :
"..Your letter, sorry to say, is much too deep for someone who wears the title of "elder"--it would force him to THINK--something Elders are not known fordoing. Instead, like good company men, the best Elders follow the rules."
Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
Hello LoneWolf,
As I did promise
I did give more timer to the reading of your excellent
letter and I would like to add some comments to some parts of it.
The quoted parts begin with ****
**** But the way I see it, the principles behind this are far more important than even the one of which Jesus made an issue when he refused to wash his hands (Matt. 15:2), and therefore all the more important that they be considered.
The WTBS considers itself more important than all the rest.
****1. This Organization claims to be Jehovah’s chosen path for people to approach him, to the exclusion of all others, and is under his divine direction. If this is true, then there are certain things that one could expect of it.
I would rather say: …many things that one ought to expect…
****That scripture should take precedence over any other consideration, including such things as the personal pride of people in official positions or any ‘established’ procedures. He speaks of himself as “loving” (1 John 4:8), “just” (Deut. 32:4), “understanding” (John 12:12), “merciful and gracious” (Ex. 34:6), and “good and ready to forgive” (Ps. 86:5), among other things.
These qualities seems to be…forgotten!
****Therefore, any organization that is indeed Jehovah’s spokesman will put these qualities first and foremost and no ‘procedures’ and/or pomposity would be allowed to interfere. If they don’t do this, then they are liars for having claimed to be Jehovah’s servants in the first place and are serving themselves instead.
I agree with you 100%. In mho, this presents a major
Obstacle, in every congregation.
****But the fact is that such conditions exist, and are then exacerbated by intransigent officials worried about their dignity by covering up their transgressions and stone walling people when they object.
I do believe you couldn't put it better!!!
"… intransigent officials worried about their dignity by covering up their transgressions…" True, true, very, very true!!!
****As it is now, many congregations have been reduced to little more than ‘one-up-man-ship societies’ whose prime function seems to be to keep an eagle eye on one another to see who is the most ‘worthy’.
To sum up: There is far too much time being spent in judging people instead of “feeding” them. (John 21:15-17)
I do agree with your statements.
True, true, very, very true!!!
**** They become guilty of Matt. 23:5 by taking scriptures such as Psalms 45:16 and Isaiah 32:1 and construing them as applicable to the elders of today. I remember when this was first brought out in a study article. It was carefully and correctly applied to the New Order, and the suggestion was made that the elders of today could be their forerunners. Gradually it came to be applied in full force to the elders now. What is the difference between this and what the Corinthian elders did in their day? (1 Cor. 4:8)
Excellent and true application! Allow me please to add,
that in the last decade " they" have become …"…the glorious
ones…"!!! Previously it was only applied to the - anointed
elders -!
****It’s one of the biggest reasons that so many elders quit and that the increase has stalled and even regressed in places. What is it? This:
Such scriptures as Matt. 18:18-20 went to the heads of those in power. If a meeting was introduced with prayer, then Jehovah’s spirit was guiding them.
Many, unfortunately become arrogant, thirsty for power, never
never, to admit error or even hiding sin…for a long time…until
others discovered it…
*****All of it was just assumed. Suddenly it became a sin to even ask questions about what we were being told.
That is one of the points …I never digested nor
I'll ever digest!!! And you're right…it's almost if
You became a sinner…because you had the
courage and sincerity to ask!!!
*****c. We are told in scripture that the Truth should be sounded down into our hearts, so that we will be building on the “rock mass” and not “sand” (Matt 7:24-27). The only way that can be done is to have the freedom to question, test, or do anything else that will convince our hearts that it is something worth putting our confidence in.
*****The only way we can possibly formulate such an answer is to have the freedom to question.
You're touching a very sensitive spot…for the WSTBS corporations and their travelling representatives…
To sum up: We all have the scriptural, God given freedom, right, and responsibility to think independently and critically regarding any information that is set before us.
Isn't a bit strange that this fear of …probing, checking the
informations should come from those who openly declare:
°They base their beliefs solely on the Bible
°They hold to the Bible as the standard for all their
beliefs
°The organisation, adheres closely to God's inspired
Word, basing all its teaching and standard of conduct
o the Bible.
°The standard for what is orthodox , however, should
be God's Word, and Jehovah's Witnesses strictly adhere
to the Bible.
All these quotes are from the book:
" Reasoning from the Scriptures"
published in 1985 by the WTBS
*****No one has either the authority or the importance to demand that we accept anything without question.
*****This includes those still in the organization, for the gullible have been led to place their faith on blind obedience.
For these phrases you should show…openly the "reasoning.."
book!!!
******As to those who can see through it --- They stay in, not due to love for Jehovah and his ways, but due to the fear of the devastation that this organization will deliberately wreak upon their families if they don’t go along .
Unfortunately , this is a fact, true and very, very sad!
So much for defending the Chart of the Human Rights!!!
*****I’m sure that many thousands of elders would throw a conniption fit upon reading these words and instantly label me one of the worst apostates that ever lived.
NO! If they would reason, imitating Jesus Christ, and being
ipartial, they would on the long run, come to the right conclusion. After all if they acted differently they themselves,would be guilty of …intolerance !
Let's remember the WTBS own words, almost 62 years ago:
"…consciously or unconsciously we seek to compensate a
lack of facts, logic or Scriptural authority by an overbearing
manner." (w. 1st June 1959 pages 323-4 - Intolerance is
a sign of weakness).
*****Everywhere I turn out here, I meet those who have attempted to approach the elders trying to get justice due to some “brother” doing them an injustice, only to be scoffed at and turned away. What kind of a name does this give Jehovah?
A very bad one indeed!
******b. That I have every intent to speak freely of the things I have listed above –-- and more --- to my family, friends, and in writing to the Society itself.
Continue, do not give up, speak freely!
*****c. That I will continue to think independently and critically, if necessary, and freely express those thoughts to those they apply to, regardless of rank, position, or any other distinction.
This is an excellent disposition, truly sincere and I may add
Reflecting a sincere desire to help others.
I do hope that I've not disappointed you with some of my
Personal comments. The facts that you wrote such a letter
Speaks openly about your qualities, your sincerity and your
Great courage, accompanied by the determination to speak
Freely and truly. It was refreshing, pleasant and recomforting
To read your beautiful letter.
Far away, but near to you in the same spirit,
Receive my personal and sincere greetings, to you
And your family, J.C. MacHislopp
P.S. Your comment about the « ...princes «
changes and the new application, I’ve found the
written proof of the « OLD LIGHT » !!
from the book «’The TRUTH shall make you free »
edited in 1943, chapt. XXVIII pages 352-359.
I could not believe my eyes when I read the all
chapter !!! I think I’ll post some quotes from it.
I’m sorry I took so long to reply…I sort of lost the thread! Anyway, Mac did an excellent job in his review of your letter and I’m in agreement with him. I was particularly moved by several points you made but one that really sticks out is this:
:::As to those who can see through it --- They stay in, not due to love for Jehovah and his ways, but due to the fear of the devastation that this organization will deliberately wreak upon their families if they don’t go along .:::
I am reminded of something written by Tolstoy: “Just as a trained tiger, who does not eat meat put under his nose, and jumps over a stick at the word of command, does not act thus because he likes it, but because he remembers the red-hot irons or the fast with which he was punished every time he did not obey; so men submitting to what is disadvantageous or even ruinous to them, and considered by them as unjust, act thus because they remember what they suffered for resisting it.”
Have you ever received a reply to your letter?
Hello Frenchy,
just to congratulate you for the
Tolstoi's quote. A nice piece of research, very
powerful and thought provoking. Thanks.
Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
Hello Tom,
How are things going and how are YOU doing these days?
Sincerely, sKally
Hi, All,
I'm glad that circumstances brought me back to this, for I was on the road and driving 500 miles every day, six days a week during December. I missed some of your comments.
teejay ---
Did you write all of this?Uhh, (red-faced and scraping my feet in bashfulness) Yeah.
MacHislopp ---
How on earth could I be disappointed in your comments? You have delightfully confirmed and enlarged on what I was saying, and there is no way that I can adequately express my appreciation for such things. I treasure those who can get the sense of what I am trying to say and join me in the effort to eliminate errors and/or expand on the concepts.
And I warmly return your greetings.
I am working on another project that will not be ready for a little while yet. When it is, I would like to send it to you to see if you can find error in it and/or add something to it. Would that be okay? I see that your mailbox is open.
Frenchy ---
His words are certainly the truth, aren't they?
The only answer I received was entirely oral. It was not unfriendly, yet there was no change either.
sf --- How am I doing? Mostly mildooing. It's rainy here.
LoneWolf
{{{{HUGS}}}}
You are first on my list to call as soon as I'm off restriction from the phone company. I've really been wanting to "chat".
Good to "see" you logging in.
Get on yahoo messenger and we can chat there too...no restrictions.
Love,sKally
