Semantics!
Dino
BOE letter: "presiding overseer" becomes "coordinator of the body of elders
by Billy the Ex-Bethelite 113 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Good comments, all. Sorry my time is limited to comment, but I'll say this...
The way things are worded in publications and in letters, the puppetmasters of Botchtower Corporation want to address and correct serious problems, without actually coming out and saying what the problem is. They don't want folks to know there are serious problems, but they have to fix them somehow. Around the typical blah-blah-blah, here's what I saw as the main point:
the term "presiding overseer" will no longer be used, since that expression may convey the thought that one overseer holds more authority than the rest do. Scripturally, individual elders are to cooperate closely with the body of elders, with each member holding equal authority. Hence, no elder is above the others in the body, and none of them should try to dominate the others.... the designation "presiding overseer" is being changed to "coordinator of the body of elders." This term more correctly describes his role as one who helps the body of elders to work together harmoniously. He is not the coordinator of the congregation but rather the coordinator of the body of elders. In recognition of Christ's headship, he humbly works along with the other elders in caring for the flock of God.
Although many POs have been okay about "keeping their place", other POs have ruled with an iron fist. Some have been moved in by COs and commissioned to do just that in "cleaning up the cong" according to the whim of the latest CO. Anyone that's served as an elder for long probably has stories of rampaging COs that dictate exactly how things are to be done and surround themselves with brown-nosed POs. The next CO comes along and says, in effect, "what the hell, where did he come up with that stupid idea." Those POs then scramble to hold their authority by brown-nosing that CO.
But back to the subject of PO, the position had been elevated into a headship position by [drumroll please] Botchtower Corporation themselves. One most recent example is the "Elders School" at Patterson. So, they have all the POs go through the school first to be better trained to run the congregations, right? Oops, I guess not anymore. Even after being "Pattersonized", the CotBoEs are still just "equals". I'm sharing the term "Pattersonized" since after attending the CO School held there, the COs returned to their assignments with a notably more "holier than thou" attitude. It has probably turned out the same with the "Pattersonized" POs that attended the "School" at Patterson. Come back with a newly polished halo and some irate bodies that have to listen to their "wisdom" and follow their "enlighted" direction.
Also, with Bethelites getting kicked to the curb and now stuck out in Podunk Congregation, they may get quickly elevated to PO and be "taking charge" and causing resentment.
And finally, if this is tied in the the elimination of COs, once the COs get kicked to the curb, they won't get to step in as new "kick ass" POs screwing up congregations. Nope. Those ex-COs fit in with this sentence, "Hence, no elder is above the others in the body, and none of them should try to dominate the others."
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still_in74
Also, with Bethelites getting kicked to the curb and now stuck out in Podunk Congregation, they may get quickly elevated to PO and be "taking charge" and causing resentment.
And finally, if this is tied in the the elimination of COs, once the COs get kicked to the curb, they won't get to step in as new "kick ass" POs screwing up congregations. Nope. Those ex-COs fit in with this sentence, "Hence, no elder is above the others in the body, and none of them should try to dominate the others."
Billy, I was about to post this exact thought before I saw that you did. Many "over-qualified" elders will be coming into a lot of cong's and many elders would have a tendency to look to these ones as being "above" the PO. This could cause dissention amongst the elders.
Also, with the rotation of "overseerers" after the elimination of CO's one would presume that only PO's would have the "higher" privilege/responsibility of handling this. Yet the PO may not be the most qualified or respected and thus not be a good pick. By "equalizing" the authority of elders, each city or mini-circuit may as a group of elder bodies select a "qualified" brother to care for this new role. This may or may not be an ex-PO/ex-CO as they are all simply "elders". Any elder former PO/CO who pushed their credentials would now have further grounds for being reprimanded/counseled. Oh if only this were the case back in Rutherfords day!
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Doubting Bro
Billy brings up a good point "But back to the subject of PO, the position had been elevated into a headship position by [drumroll please] Botchtower Corporation themselves. One most recent example is the "Elders School" at Patterson. So, they have all the POs go through the school first to be better trained to run the congregations, right? Oops, I guess not anymore." Why are they sending all the POs to Elders School at Patterson when they are just another elder?? I saw someone suggest that perhaps they wanted to evaluate them to help determine who should be elevated to the "circuit elder" position. And why now? Why not wait until the elder school is finished? This is all part of a plan, but I'm definitely missing something right now. It's fun to speculate though! Sorry about the formatting, using firefox.
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SnakesInTheTower
Here is another of my thoughts on this,
DO position (currently about 50 in the US)... number of positions increased, territories shrunk. Responsible for less area. Would be responsible for recommending Circuit Elders to the Service Department. Position assumed by eliminated COs. DOs could continue to be appointed by Service OR Governing Body could take over this task directly as the GB had appointed CO's directly and Service chose them to appoint DOs. DO would come around to congregations more often for "work with" weeks with the new "Circuit Elders".
CO position (currently about 500 in the US)... eliminated. some responsibilities taken over by "Circuit Elders" ...number determined by size of circuit. Circuit size determined by CA/SAD facilities and the schedules. Allows the Society to eliminate incompetent CO's through forced retirements/layoffs/downgrade to Special Pioneer or regular elder.
NEW position: Circuit Elder ..potential for a dozen or more per circuit. New responsibilities would include visiting the congos 3 times a year on a more restricted weekend schedule. Would assume responsibilities of old CO position during visit, including looking over potential elder/MS appointments. Potential to assume all responsibility for judicial committees in local congregations. Position would be reviewed by DO and forwarded to Service for actual appointment.
Presiding Overseer: Now called Congregation Coordinator. Responsibilities could be watered down, especially if judicial matters are forwarded up the line. In reality, PO still will wield a lot of power at the local level.
Service Committee: I could see a tightening down of appointments on this. Secretary not much change..less forms to fill out as reporting streamlined online. Service overseer continues to visit Field Service Groups (although no longer meeting with them on a book study night), possibly still gives Service Talks. PO no longer chairman, but just a "coordinator" (wink wink)
Regular Elders and Ministerial Servants... look to see these positons watered down to oblivion. I see a tightening of the screws on appointments. More reviewing. I could see each congregation getting ONE visit a year with the DO and a Circuit Elder, and TWO visits per year with the Circuit Elder. Appoinments would only be reviewed once a year during the DO visit.
As less and less literature is being ordered, look to see the Literature/Magazine servant function be formally combined. (Subscription Servant eliminated years ago, why not eliminate another "position." Look to see the Society tell the local congregations to not stock literature anymore, but go to a complete "just in time" ordering system as needed for each month. Elimination of Literature Depots. Look to see the Society go to a "just in time" printing/shipping system. ALL literature shipped directly to congregation as there is no longer a cost savings drop shipping to LDCs. Look to see complete elimination of CDs/MP3s being shipped...forced to download from society and burn to your own disc. Bound volumes to be eliminated.
Less elders and servants will be needed as there are now 2 less parts on the Theocratic School (elimination of Instruction talk and Speech Quality parts...leaving only Bible Highlights for Servants/elders) Shorter Service meetings means less parts for elders/servants.
Public Talks... look to see something else change here... some sort of formalizing of public talk coordinating among congos... instead of the informal arrangement we have... or .... video recordings of higher quality speakers (as if you can put lipstick on a pig) to control what is said on sunday. ....or.... local elders/servants only giving 30 min talks...no out of town talks.....too many really bad speakers still spouting their opinions..
what you will see is a rapid downsizing of the Society as far as expenses, but a tightening of control..dont let the CO elimination or PO semantics fool anyone.. this cult is tightening the screws..
just my thoughts...
Snakes ()
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yknot
Excellent Snakes!
We still haven't received our Nov WTs !!!!! but then again we are only up to July!
I can see the CD burning too with a special congregational passcode or the Lit Servant being the one to burn and deliver.
I think before we go to pre-taped rambling talks by WTS officials, they will try-out scripts (instead of outlines) like at the Assemblies and DC. Eventually I could see a big screen on the stage. I wonder if the WTS could get the rights to Max Headroom.
what you will see is a rapid downsizing of the Society as far as expenses, but a tightening of control..dont let the CO elimination or PO semantics fool anyone.. this cult is tightening the screws..
Now that is some 'troof'....
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SnakesInTheTower
yknot...
Wasnt there some discussion a couple years ago about the congos getting a projector that could be attached to a laptop or DVD player. Most congos still have (or have access to) a screen for showing things projected... maybe it might inject some excitement in those borefests..... hell a fart could instill some excitement...
Snakes ()
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yknot
We have a projection screen in the Elder Room. There is capability to do a streaming video from JW.org if they uploaded a talk too.
We last used it to view some quick build videos where all of our Brothers helped out, but it is a pain to hang. ... we do however have room above the stage to add a retracting screen in the future.
However I think that men like to 'preen' before an audience, it makes them feel "special" and it gives them a reason to 'reach-out'.
Also if the borg is wanting to distance itself in appearance but keep control then scripted talks provide that illusion for awhile.
I guess in the end it comes down to who is running the show up in NY. If we are going to keep our coffers full by making converts then having a pre-recorded talk would seem too 'cultish' for most. If they do ever go to this format it will be introduced first at the Assembies and DC via a speciall message from GB so & so.
Guess we will have to wait and see....(or check to see if the Mormons are doing it... I think we will model ourselves more after them)
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BonaFide
A few years ago I would have rejoiced at this announcement, as no doubt many Witnesses will do. Most Witnesses will say, "Wow, that shows Jehovah is in charge because he is again making sure everyone is equal, thats why no more P.O." And most elders will be happy, just not the P.O.'s, because this will mean they are no longer drowned out or pushed down by the P.O. during elders meetings. All of us that have served or are serving as elders can testify to some P.O.'s making sure the body realizes that they are the P.O. and in charge.
So, overall, Witnesses will view this as further light that Jehovah and his Holy Spirit is running everything. They will even say, "And those who were mad at the P.O. in years past, they should have been patient, because now look, all the elders are equal."
Anyone who says to them, "Isnt this a little fishy for several reasons, and isnt this like NOT IMPORTANT compared to the real issues facing the organization will be looked at as an apostate who can't see how important this announcement is.
BF
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Jeremy C
If we are going to keep our coffers full by making converts then having a pre-recorded talk would seem too 'cultish' for most. If they do ever go to this format it will be introduced first at the Assembies and DC via a speciall message from GB so & so.
The sheer thought of such an arrangement is hilarious. I would go visit a Kingdom Hall on a Sunday just to be entertained. Immagine how utterly creepy this would look to interested ones who came to the Kingdom Hall on a Sunday morning. This kind of arrangement would appear eerily similar to the videos that Marshall Applewhite made for his followers in the Heaven’s Gate.