...when he said "the one that has endured to the end will be saved"?
Thanks for your thoughts.
/Newborn
What do you think Jesus meant...
by Newborn 39 Replies latest watchtower bible
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ozziepost
The key is in understanding what is the 'end' being spoken of - end of a world as in Dub belief or a personal end. Which makes more sense? Which is in context?
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Junction-Guy
I don't have time to research this, as I am leaving for Nashville shortly, but I do believe that various other bible translations render it differently. and if by chance they do not, then I believe he meant it in the context of Free-Will, So that's about all I can say today. Maybe others will give you their perspective.
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WTWizard
He that endures (that is, avoids having the authorities force him into bicameral following mode of thinking) is the one that will be saved (as in, from stagnation).
In other words, one must strive to be independent in thinking.
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booby
I always find it interesting that the more one reads the more confusing the scriptures can be. Maybe the catholic church has it right after all. The bible just isn't for dummies like me. Actually the Witnesses say the same thing, without them you cannot understand the bible, but they condemn the catholics for saying it. Anywho . . . . whereas the witness thought has been - die before Armageddon = automatic pass to resurrection this scripture does give the thought (read in context) that if you don't make it to the "end" your toast. How many times did I read that, or at least follow its reading in the congregation and focus on the survival through the "end of the world" whereas all those incorrigably wicked worldlings round about were snuffed out.
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Brother Apostate
What do you think Jesus meant...when he said "the one that has endured to the end will be saved"?
First, read the context of that statement:
All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes. "A student is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. It is enough for the student to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebub, how much more the members of his household! "So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs. Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. -Matthew 10:22-28
"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. -Matthew 24:9-14
He is referring to the end of an individual Christian's life, whether that end be from martyrdom or death by natural causes. If you think about it, that is clearly what He taught here. True Christians are to live their life for God, up to and including death. He made it clear that it won't be easy, but it will all be worth it when we see him face to face.
BA- Cheers.
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booby
brother apostate makes it sound so simple, But as I pointed out the bible is so very complex. Are you then saying that the end that requires a preaching to the whole world is the end of the individuals life. You can see how convoluted it can all become. And yes the context is so very important. This just can't be talking about the end of the person.
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White Dove
I don't believe in Jesus or the Bible.
Jesus is like Santy Claws, no proof.
The Bible is as valid as the Quran and other such "Holy Books."
There is no proof that one is more valid than the other.
Flame me
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Brother Apostate
brother apostate makes it sound so simple, But as I pointed out the bible is so very complex. Are you then saying that the end that requires a preaching to the whole world is the end of the individuals life. You can see how convoluted it can all become. And yes the context is so very important. This just can't be talking about the end of the person.
I answered the question correctly. What other "end" makes sense? None. It isn't "complex" if you have critical thinking skills and reading comprehension. Perhaps you do not and that is why you find it "so very complex"? Or is it just intellectual laziness, or just not wanting to believe? I truly don't understand how anyone could have trouble with this, it is plain as day. The other "end" (Matthew 24:14) is obviously talking about Armageddon, which hasn't come yet. Do I really need to explain to you why there is nothing "convoluted" here?
BA- Bewildered.
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booby
I sometimes wish I could just be as smart as some other people, but hey! I yam what I yam. Nobody reads scripture and concludes that what makes sense is necessarily what is being said. The "end" that it talks of is clearly shown to be the end of the arrangement. Read verse three and it is very clear. So regardless of what you "think" and how superior you feel, the scripture plainly says he that survives to the end of the conclusion of the system of things. Not is faithful to the "end" of their life.