Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-28-08 WT Study (SUCCESS)

by blondie 30 Replies latest jw friends

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Yes, most JW's I have met complete their "hours" to maintain their own standing with the congregation and god. I don't see much concern for the "lost".

    The rest of Christendom is worried about church growth, too. It doesn't count as growth if Peter is robbing Paul.

    http://www.freedomsring.org/fas/chap29.html

    www.barna.org

    As a side note, I watched with fascination a National Geographic special called "Aftermath" that shows what the world would be like if people suddenly disappeared. I couldn't get hubby interested, though I thought he should be. After all, a 1/1000 drop in population would have nearly the same effect. It's clear that elders should be boning up on Nuclear Facility and Chemical Plant maintenance ASAP.

    The interactive link at this site is very cool.

    http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/aftermath-population-zero-3225?rm=1#tab-Overview

  • Blueblades
    Blueblades

    Thanks Blondie.

    .This is another clever way for the society in using double speak. The whole article smacks of "DO MORE! DO MORE!, if you want "THE CARROT" here is how you get it, go out into the field service!

    Success will not be yours unless you not only go out in the field but get those Bible studies, bring them to the hall.

    How are we going to measure your success unless we see visble proof of you out there in service and bringing to the hall new prospects for the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

    In order to have success, you must "DO MORE!"

    Blueblades

  • bobld
    bobld

    Q1.Comparing a farmer to amazing growth.So a farmer plants (J.W. preaching) only to get a meager harvest.Yeah, to the gbes a harvest of 5 bushels to the acre is amazing growth.

    Q5 In the 1st century from thousands of disciples ( of Jesus) to a few hundred disciples (of Jehovah) by 1879,yeah amazing transformation and growth.

    Bob

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    New light abounds....at least I think so....Todays study said :

    6. Since the establishment of God's Kingdom in heaven in 1914, the branches of the mustard "tree" have expanded beyond expectations. God's people have seen the literal fulfillment of the prophecy recorded by Isaiah: "The little one himself will become a thousand, and the small one a mighty nation." (Isa. 60: 22) The small group of anointed ones associated with the Kingdom work early in the 20th century had no way of knowing that by the year 2008, about seven million Witnesses would be engaging in this work in over 230 lands. Truly amazing growth, comparable to that of the mustard grain in Jesus' illustration!

    Compare with :

    *** kc chap. 11 pp. 99-101 pars. 8-9 Kingdom Illustrations ***

    A phenomenal growth this—and surely, to something far more expansive than the "little flock" of 144,000 Kingdom heirs, to whom ‘the Father has approved of giving the kingdom’! (Luke 12:32; Revelation 14:1, 3) Rather, it is the growth of the great counterfeit "tree" of Christendom as an apostasy from the congregation that Jesus had planted

    P14. Like leaven, the Kingdom preaching work that has prompted this spiritual growth has expanded to the point that the Kingdom is now being preached "to the most distant part of the earth." (Acts 1:8; Matt. 24:14) What a wonderful privilege it is to be part of this amazing expansion of the Kingdom work!

    compare

    kc chap. 11 p. 101 par. 11 Kingdom Illustrations ***

    11

    In the illustration, a feature in connection with "the kingdom of the heavens" is said to be like leaven that a woman hides in three measures of flour. So the whole mass of flour becomes fermented. This pictures the stealthy corrupting of the professed Christian congregation with false Babylonish teaching and practice, resulting in the massive structure of Christendom’s counterfeit kingdom.

    18. Literally millions of symbolic fish from the sea of humanity have been attracted to Jehovah's congregation in modern times, Some attend the Memorial, others come to our meetings, and still others are happy to study the Bible, But do all of these prove to be genuine Christians? They may be "hauled up onto the beach," but Jesus tells us that only "the fine ones" are gathered into vessels, which represent Christian congregations, The unsuitable are thrown away, eventually to be cast into a symbolic fiery furnace, denoting future destruction.

    Compare

    *** w92 6/15 p. 21 par. 19 What Do the Dragnet and Fish Mean for You? ***

    "The outworking of what was here illustrated was not limited to the centuries between the apostles’ time and 1914. During that period, the dragnet instrument came to gather both false and true professors of Christianity. "

    So what do we learn from todays study?? That they can change "The meaning of Gods word" any time they like , to mean whatever they say it means and whatever is thought to be encouraging to the flock! Spritual shepherds, or wolves in sheeps clothing??

    What will it mean next year?

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    Thanks Blondie !

    This article is quite different from previous interpretations. The changes in this lesson are big, but not particularly relevant to a dub's faith... not like blood fractions or "generation". I think that this week and last week's lesson are bracing for another stagnant report for the year, barely keeping up with average world population growth. Perhaps this service year, just ended, will be a decrease.

    Although there are many points to take issue with, I'd like to make one comment that I believe is clearly a more correct interpretation, or at least more plausible than "invisible growth":

    (Matthew 13:33) 33 Another illustration he spoke to them: “The kingdom of the heavens is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three large measures of flour, until the whole mass was fermented.”

    (Luke 13:20-21) 20 And again he said: “With what shall I compare the kingdom of God? 21 It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three large measures of flour until the whole mass was fermented.”


    It's my belief that the reference to "a woman" would prove that it isn't Jesus that's leavening the lump. Rather, "woman" represents the individual Christian either male or female who is in "womanly" subjection to the "manly" Watch Tower Corporation.
    The "flour" represents the individual dubs monthly field service report.
    The "three large measures of flour" represents the three general categories on the report:

      1) hours,
      2) placements, including books, brochures, and magazines,
      3) visits, including return visits and publication studies
    The "leaven" is the individual Christian's desire to turn in a super report of Kingdom activity... without actually doing any work.
    Consequently, the individual publisher "hides" this leaven in the "flour" of their actual Kingdom preaching activity. Just as yeast will cause a small amount of dough to inflate with tiny air bubbles to become a large loaf, the individual publisher will, over the course of a month, inflate their activity to something much larger than the original mass.

    Consequently, an individual dub may "yeastify" their three measures of flour thusly:
    • Actual hours: 2... Inflate report to: 8 hours
    • Actual placements: 2 mags. 1 brochure... Inflate report to: 6 mags. 1 bk. 1 broch.
    • Actual visits: 1 RV... Inflate report to: 4 RV

    With this illustration of Jesus, and my superior intellect to interpret his words, we clearly see that the Lord Christ Jesus was actually prophecying that in our 20th & 21st century, Hojovah's Witnesses would be inflating their reports of kingdom activity just like a baker would allow yeast to inflate a little wad of dough into large yeast roll, light and airy, bake in the oven until just right, bring out hot, split, smear with butter and jam and eat. Yum.

    B the X

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Thanks, Blondie.

    Billy the X, were you ever on the Writing Committee?

    LOL.

    Sylvia

  • Doubting Bro
    Doubting Bro

    Billy - You are hilarious!! If you're not a comedy writer, you've missed your calling!

    Bluesbrother - I think you've hit all the changes. What amazes me is the 180 degree change in some of these.

    The mustard plant changing from all organizations that took on the mantel of Christian and were apostate to just JWs who are the true religion is pretty big. It seems there are two basic schools of thought on this illustration. Of course, since the WTS loves to change things, they have simply moved from one school to another. The old position was in the school that the mustard plant represented the growth of problems within the Christian church as represented by birds (agents of Satan per the illustration in Matt 13 where they eat the seed sown by the roadside) getting shelter there. The new position is in agreement for the most part with the commentators that say the mustard plant signifies the growth of Christianity from 1 person to a major world religion. The only difference is the WTS twist that the plant represents just the WTS. Of course, everything is always about them, so no shock there. What I read said that this plant signifies the outside growth of the Christian religion (numbers of converts).

    The leaven is also not a unique WTS teaching and I found there are basically two schools of thought on that illustration from bible commentators.By the way, this apparently was a very long held view and may be one of the only things the WTS hasn't changed its position on, until now. The old WTS teaching that leaven was bad is not unique from what I saw in my brief search and is thought by some to represent evil in the church. The new WTS teaching is in line with some bible commentators only, of course, a WTS twist. Seems, an equal number of folks I read think the leaven represents the teachings of Jesus taking root in an individual Christian's life and "making that person over". Like a small amount of fermented dough can ferment the whole lump. Seems to make sense to me. Yet, the WTS twist is that while it represents "spiritual growth" this is evidenced by outside growth. That is different from the standard interpertation that this illustration represents spiritual growth of an individual. By the way, our conductor allowed a major deviation in the discussion where many took the standard interpertation and ran with it. He even agreed and by his wording actually disagreed with the WTS interpertation (not sure if he realizes he did that or not).

    Finally, we come to the dragnet. Again, another 180 degree change. This one is unique to the WTS. It really doesn't make any sense at all. First, anyone that has used a drag net knows that you capture EVERYTHING in the area of the net. Fish aren't attracted to the stupid thing. Its not the same a bait technique where you entice the fish to strike at a lure. Also, its a one time thing. Either your a good fish or a bad fish. You are either kept or destroyed. They make it sound like you can change from a good fish to a bad fish or vice versa. I still have trouble understanding how the WTS explains this. Seems most of those commenting nor the conductor explained it very well and basically rushed through that part.

    I actually read the whole book of Matthew this weekend to look specifically at the illustrations. In my uneducated opinion, it seems that Jesus basically was sending the same message to his apostles by telling them many different illustrations. There would be a contrast between his followers and those who didn't follow him. The faithful/evil slave, the worker in the field (one chosen one not), the sheep and goats, the wheat and weeds, the good fish and bad fish. Seems to me they are all talking about the same thing. To try to make these items all mean different things simply doesn't make sense. Yet, when you're trying to retrofit a failed theology - you have to make leaps of logic.

  • Mary
    Mary

    I think it's worth noting what the WTS was teaching in 1992 that is now "old light". In the June 15th, 1992, Watchtower, it says that the dragnet symbolizes Christendom as well as "annointed Christians":

    So the dragnet represents an earthly instrument that professes to be God’s congregation and that gathers in fish. It has included both Christendom and the congregation of anointed Christians, the latter having continued to collect fine fish, under the invisible guidance of the angels…”

    When I read the whole article, I was surprised that they gave a perfunctory nod to other religions for their preaching efforts over the centuries, even though the vast majority of 'fish' collected were apparently no damn good. But apparently that's not acceptable anymore and hence the change. I'm guessing that 99% of the Witnesses who attended the study on Sunday never even bothered to look up what the 'previous understanding' was in the first place.

    Another thing that this article does (or more accurately, doesn't do) is address the problem of the 'separating' work. Regardless of when they say this happens (and I'm sure it'll go back and forth yet again in future articles), the jest of their illustration is that the "good fish" represent only Jehovah's Witnesses and even then it's kind of dicey as to who is classified as being "good". All the 'bad' fish apparently include people from all other religions as well as Dubs who have become slackers or 'apostates'.

    If you take this illustration at face value, that would mean that only one kind of fish could actually be considered "good". Let's say a fisherman is out fishing one day and wants to get salmon. In addition to the salmon, he also catches some tuna, mackeral, shrimp, swordfish, etc. They're all in excellent shape. Would he really be dumb enough to throw them all back in the water simply because they weren't all salmon? Or would he be crazy enough to declare that only salmon can really be classified as being "fish" and all other kinds as being "worthless"? I sincerely doubt it.

    Yet that is exactly what the Organization teaches today with regards to 'true Christianity'. Makes no difference if you're a Baptist, Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Protestant, etc. who lead good moral lives, are devoted to the teachings of Jesus, do charitable works, look after the widowed and the orphans, etc. You're not a Jehovah's Witness and therefore you are a 'bad fish' and worthy of being thrown back in the water.

    I sincerely doubt that the average person sitting in the Kindumb Hell would ever think of this. They'll sit there, half bored, half listening, thanking God that they got their 15 minutes of Service in last month so they can be counted as "worthy".

  • Meeting Junkie No More
    Meeting Junkie No More

    First off, thanks again Blondie for all your hard work! Much appreciated. Ditto B the X for your amazing insight into the correct interpretation! and Bluesbrother for ferreting out all the contradictions.

    Loved this too from Mary:

    I'm guessing that 99% of the Witnesses who attended the study on Sunday never even bothered to look up what the 'previous understanding' was in the first place

    I've finally figured out what the whole point in all these 'refined () understandings' must be. It's so some pompous ass PO or other 'holy spirit' appointee can pontificate from the platform about what the understanding used to be and how these 'nuggets of truth' () are some amazing refinement that we should all be eternally grateful to the faithful and discreet slave class for bringing to our attention. This is the way this person draws attention to himself as 'extra spiritual' and something to be emulated by the rest of the schlepps in the hall. It's all so starting to fall into place for me NOW.

    How the hell did I fail to see this for 40+ years?

  • DoomVoyager
    DoomVoyager

    Thank you Blondie! Excellent work as usual.

    Billy: LOL. Thank you for bringing the correct understanding of this important scriptural teaching to my attention. In line with Jesus' words, I will henceforth multiply all values on my field service report by the divine number of 7.

    Just to recap the oldlight/nulite difference:

    Mustard Plant:
    Old: Mustard plant is Babylon the Great (insert at least 2 pages of filthy, hateful vitriol against the all other religions).
    Nu: Mustard plant is Hojovahs Witlesses. Lord be Praised!

    Dragnet:
    Old: Dragnet is "Christendom" over the centuries (even though they just finished calling "Christendom" all kinds of filthy names for being Babble-On the Grape).
    Nu: Dragnet is Hojovahs Witlesses. Lord be Praised!

    Leaven:
    Old: Leaven is bad.
    Nu: Leaven is Hojovahs Witlesses. Lord be Praised!


    Starting to notice a pattern?

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