God or no God? I really don't know anymore.

by easyreader1970 25 Replies latest jw friends

  • easyreader1970
    easyreader1970

    I am no longer sure where I stand on the whole supreme being(s) thing anymore. But I feel like I need to find out where I stand before I move in any particular direction. Or maybe I don't?

    The Old Testament

    These books of the Bible make Yahweh out to be a jealous, vindictive bully with little to no self-esteem. I have a difficult time accepting that most of these scriptures were given to man through a deity. Without biblical scholars to do hours and hours and hours of research on each individual scripture, how could the common man (especially one that is not a Jew) ever hope to understand all of the figurative language and references? Surely Yahweh could not have expected that everyone throughout human history would have access to libraries of knowledge. Why was it not written more straight forward in terms of specifically what God expects? What fits more is that the Hebrew scriptures were written very carefully as a means to control a population. However, even if every single word of the Old Testament was completely made up by controlling priests or raving lunatics and that could be proven, it doesn't automatically prove that God or Yahweh doesn't exist. It just means that he/she/it/they didn't have a direct hand in writing those verses.

    The New Testament

    The Bible Part 2. Why was there so much time between the old and new testament. Did God not have anything new to say for four hundred years? Why is Paul ultimately more important in Christian theology than Jesus? Why aren't Jesus' commands of loving God and your neighbor enough? If they weren't enough, then why didn't Jesus say so? Why did Paul have to be the one to make the rules? Jesus' messages were pretty plain and simple to understand. No confusion there. Anybody could understand it who read it, even if they didn't understand everything about the history of the places and people in the Bible. Why is there a need for religion to enforce the beliefs in the Bible? Was it also written as a means to control people living at the time? Is it inspired or is the whole thing made up? If it is made up, does that automatically mean that Jesus (as a god or godlike human) doesn't exist or never existed?

    Other Religions

    Now I have never even read the Quran or religious texts of other religions. Mostly because I was raised as a "Christian" even before I was drafted into the WBTS pyramid.

    Because of my upbringing, I am conditioned to believe in a supreme being that at least created if not controlls the universe we live in. Or maybe there are many gods as some religions teach?

    Science

    Evolution. This is the other "how we got here" explanation. It sounds much more plausible because there aren't any emotional godlike beings moving us around like chess pieces. Even so, there are still bits of evolution that do not make sense for me. The eye, for instance. The eye developing through evolution seems impossible for me to accept. I've read evolutionary theory on the development of the eye. It's full of maybes and possiblies and what-ifs. I know science is not all-knowing, but at this point in scientific understanding, the eye breaks evolution for me.

    And then there is the "creation of the universe". To simplify, it comes down to this: Either everything came from something or everything came from nothing. Both of those explanations require a large amount of faith and neither make any sense to me.

    Let's start with the Big Bang (everything came from nothing). Something had to exist in the universe in order for it to be big banged. What was it? Where did it come from? How long did it float around in nothingness? How did it float around if there was no time? How could it exist if there was no universe? What was there before the little something existed?

    Then we have God, Allah, Yahweh, Jehovah, Jesus, Zeus, Jupiter, Aten, Amon, etc. (everything came from something). The exact same questions apply. Where did the deity come from? How long was it there or were they there before they decided that the universe would be a nice thing to create? What was it doing or what were they doing before the universe existed? Did something create them? Do they exist out of time and, if so, how is that even possible?

    Both ideas require large leaps of faith and more brain power than I have to contemplate.

    Where I am right now.

    Religion is based on interpretation of religious texts. Everybody's interpretation is different and even individuals or groups change their own interpretations over time so nobody can be fully trusted. Religious texts may not even be divinely inspired but that does not mean God/gods/evolved aliens/whatever doesn't exist.

    Should I just be satisfied that I can't know the unknowable (agnostic)? I can't profess to be atheist because I am not fully convinced that he/she/they don't exist. I can't be theist because I have too many doubts. I could be deist, but that serves no useful purpose except to explain some things that I cannot comprehend.

    er

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    That was a thoughtful post, ER.

    I'll comment on this part:

    Should I just be satisfied that I can't know the unknowable (agnostic)? I can't profess to be atheist because I am not fully convinced that he/she/they don't exist.

    My answer is you can be satisfied with that conclusion. In reality, nobody on earth -- not even the smartest or greatest philosophical or theological mind, can know for sure whether there is or isn't a deity. In that sense, everyone is without knowledge, i.e. an agnostic. It's just that some agnostics CHOOSE to believe in a deity for reasons they think are valid, others FALL INTO believing in a deity because it's tradition in their culture or family, and others choose not to believe.

    Actually the definition of an atheist is one who is without theism, that is without a firm belief in a God. There are "strong" atheists who assert there cannot possibly be a God, and that belief in such a thing is weak/foolish or the like. The majority of atheists though (like myself) are "weak" atheists, who, having considered much evidence (as you have) simply don't see enough evidence to believe in a God. Simple as that. (I belong to the Minnesota Atheists group, and have found that most are "weak" atheists like myself.) If a certain God (such as has been described by mankind) were to manifest itself/himself through a form of undeniable communication -- then the existence of God would be a FACT that only unreasonable people would deny. At that point no belief would be necessary. However I don't see that time coming any time soon, as it has been thousands of years and we're still here wondering about whether any of mankind's traditional deities (or personal gods that people have) really exist.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Very good opening post. Very good replies.

    My input? Just love one another. That's all that matters.

    To illustrate: I was feeling really lousy earlier this am. A brusque, burly police officer came out of the men's room and gave me a kind, genuine smile. How did he know that I needed that?

    I'm feeling better already.

    Peaceful thoughts toward all.

    Sylvia

  • LongHairGal
    LongHairGal

    I feel the way you alll feel. I am sick and tired of the whole subject and what it has done to the whole world. I guess I am agnostic now.

    LHG

  • Finally-Free
    Finally-Free

    Your post describes where I've been for a while. I can't independently prove or verify the existence of any God, and I can't do it for evolution either. Either way I'm forced to rely on the writings and research of others.

    If there is a God, he certainly has no business judging anyone - not when he has such shitty communication skills. There's no way for anyone to know with any certainty what the hell he wants from us.

    W

  • iloowy
    iloowy

    The Scriptures say that "God is Love". And that statement is true. Test it out. Try your best to treat others with love, especially those who've been beat up by the powers that be, the governments, the corporations, the religions. Pray to God. Read the Gospels like you never read them before, with the idea to get to know Jesus personally and his example of showing love for neighbor. Pray for strength and faith, and for God's Holy Spirit. It is something that keeps me going from day to day. I wish you the best and success in your search.

  • IP_SEC
    IP_SEC

    Hmmm. Well has "god" been proved? I dont believe so. Has the toothfairy be proved? I dont believe so. Can either be proved? Yes. Can either be disproved? No. When "god" has been proved I will believe. Until then "god" and the toothfairy are on equal footing in my mind. This is atheism not agnostisim.

    Not so complex is it?

  • beksbks
    beksbks

    For what it's worth. For years now, I've felt that whether there's a god or not, the only thing I can have any effect on, is the world around me. The people I come in contact with, and the earth itself. What good does it do for me to make myself miserable trying to fit into some mold that a man, or group has decided the god who may, or may not be there, wants me to????? What else can one peon do but be a good person? I know the JW's and some Xtian groups would scoff at that. Another reason I don't believe in them.

  • inkling
    inkling
    Even so, there are still bits of evolution that do not make sense for me. The eye, for instance. The eye developing through evolution seems impossible for me to accept.

    I'm assuming you have seen or read an explanation something like this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEKyqIJkuDQ

    What about that do you find hard to accept?

    [inkling]

  • bobld
    bobld

    The way I look at the whole 9 yards/ball of wax.Just live and enjoy life.The more you read the Bible the more pissed off you get.The more you try and figure things out,the more confused you get.As you pointed out in your long narrative.Like I said live and enjoy life.Life is to short to worry about mundane things..that you mentioned.

    Bob

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