But if your god is a loving god...why should you have to fear that he is going to beat the crap out of you if you make a mistake?
I don't fear God if I make a mistake. Forgiveness flows freely to the repented one.
As far as training, my parents were fans of BF Skinner and used a lot of operant conditioning with me. I have to say it was very effective since I equate fear of God similar to the fear of disappointing my parents. I was taught Jehovah loves me and every single person on the planet. He wants us all to be decent, kind and upright people. He set forth instuctions and principles through Jesus to help us maintain good behavior and to resist sins like selfishness and pride which are Satan's snare.
This jehovah god does not really seem to have any viable reward system. He's never there when you need help, but he's always watching to get you if you make a mistake...actually, he sends someone from WT to do his dirty business.
LOL..... I didn't spend my formative years in a R&F KH. I was taught my reward was going to be surviving Armageddon and helping the anointed to restore the earth and welcome the resurrected. I would have the privilege of discussing my unending devotion through the GT and big A.to all those resurrected like John the Baptist who were to be excited to hear how it all ended and how so many were faithful to the true God. My rewards in this system were to be assisting the WTS in increasing it's preaching work in lands Satan still held captive though the legal department. We were taught to seek balance so as not to be prideful in our zeal. I didn't expect the century to end without the passage Armageddon.
Later I moved to a R&F KH and witnessed the class distinction of the WTS. ... but I hold men responsible for it's corruption not God. I don't believe anymore that the WTS is "God's sole channel" even though I still believe in the core three. I see much of the harm done by the WT as pride of zeal, they have become like the Pharisees even though the scripture tells us we are not saved by law.
This serves the premise that if I do not even believe in jehovah that I am going to do bad things. Should I be good only because I believe god will cut off my hands if I steal? That sounds superstitious to me. I believe many people hate bad and do not participate in evil doings out of personal integrity and love for other people. I do not believe that a belief in a god is the only thing that will make a person moral. Many people enjoy goodwill among friends, neighbors, and strangers because it adds to their quality of life. There are better motivating factors for goodness than believing in the boogeyman getting you if you don't.
The general thought here is that those qualities like integrity, love and hating bad actions come from God, not from mankind alone. We are said to be made in his image originally and the mentioned qualities are reflective of him. Yes there are people who chose to believe that humans created those principles and there are humans who chose to believe we were given them. Ultimately it is a personal choice to accept or decline.
And here we see the terror of god at work. Even though Adam and Eve had made clothing of plant material, jehovah punishes them by killing the family pet and making clothes out of its hide and forcing them to wear it. Yes, I hate bad. And I think this jehovah god is bad, evil, cruel, and disgusting. I will never believe this 'god' is our true creator. If he is, then I will go down fighting his kind of evil and terror.
The plants weren't apparently suitable for the world outside of Eden. The temperature wasn't 'perfect'. I guess I have never seen it as killing the family pet so much as Jehovah showing Adam how life outside of direct provisions was going to be. It would be difficult like killing animals for hides and toiling the hard earth for vegetation..... but I come from a hunting survivalist family. I personally am a 'girl' about killing things but I accept in this system animals are food even if those animals possess intelligence. If I had to kill myself I probably would become a vegetarian quickly which is why I married a man who equally likes to hunt, has very good construction skills, and believes in hard work.
Undeserved kindness? What would this be? When you bring a child into the world you have a responsibility to provide the necessities of life until that child is old enough and capable of doing for himself. I can only imagine that text means that when anything fortunate happens that god gets the credit for causing it. Again, that is like a superstitious belief. Perhaps it is ones own perserverance and diligence that has brought the rewards of gain. Why do we have to give this god credit for our own accomplishments. A good parent does not require "sacred service" ( whatever that means?) A good parent does not expect to be worshipped. A truly good parent just wishes for the happiness and prosperity of the children. This jehovah god beats his kids with an iron rod their whole life. He puts them on restriction and time out. He keeps them isolated from the world he has created for them. They are not given the opportunity to explore for themselves. And should they wish to know more about what makes the sky blue, they are denied the higher education to actually learn about "gods" creation.
Undeserved Kindness is often called "Grace" in other religions.
I come from a family that believes parents continue to give guidance until they die. Yes the give broader boundaries as their children mature into adulthood, but the reserve the right to instruct or reprimand.
Hebrews 12:28 is an encouragement. Here is the whole verse: . ""28 Wherefore, seeing that we are to receive a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us continue to have undeserved kindness, through which we may acceptably render God sacred service with godly fear and awe."" Here we a classic example of the WTS using other words instead of keeping it simple. Sacred Service is rendered in other translations as 'may we serve God' or 'worship'.
True a earthly parent doesn't expect worship (but they often do expect love, honor, respect and obedience) but earthly parents aren't God. It is true that I as a parent would want my children t be happy and prosperous but I wouldn't want that to be achieved at the direct cost of another human being's suffering. This is where guidance comes into play. I would be happy to get a new car, but if I steal that new car it isn't the same as purchasing the vehicle, is it? Yes we are given guidance and yes there is punishment for crimes committed against others like if I stole a car.
It is true the WTS twists God's words and actions to suit their company's agenda. Aren't men however to be found at fault for this corruption? Does Jehovah God really beat his children, are the ten commandments and teachings of Christ really that difficult to follow? Has Jehovah really not given you and every person on this planet the choice to explore themselves and what he and Satan have to offer? If that was true then you wouldn't even be cognizant of having a decision in the matter. Has Jehovah really denied higher education or is that the machinations of a legal entity in the USA.
Proper fear does, however, include due respect for secular authority, because the Christian knows that just punishment from the authority for a crime would be an indirect expression of God’s anger.—Ro 13:3-7.
wonder if the Jews and JWs ever realized that it was just punishment from god's anger when they went into the showers at Dachau?
A lot of this obey gov. came from King James and was added to the scriptures, as he was a promoter of the "divine right of kings".
I think you are going beyond scriptures intent. It basically means to respect the secular authorities when those laws do not clash with God's. It doesn't mean that earthly governments aren't corruptible.
And this is why it is time to put a stop to this "system of things" with this evil ruling god. The religions of the world are nothing more than a way of controlling the masses. Magic gave birth to religion.( Wow the crowds and you can lead them.) Today it all still reeks of using superstition and guilt to coerce and control people.
Since god has never shown up and we are a planet in danger of annhiliating ourselves....why should we be afraid of change? Hasn't fear ruled long enough? Until Jesus comes in the flesh, why should we not be willing to seek some solutions to the problems here? Religions need to be exposed for the fraud they all are. The apostacy is in full swing.
You are entitled to that opinion. Historically speaking men have and will continue to seek control through brut strength and organized groups. Change is a constant with human beings and most people aren't that afraid since change tends to come from actions and reactions over time. On the flip side is the fact that history tells us great civilizations have come and gone, sometimes due to 'dark ages' and that does make people afraid. No one wants to wake up and find ourselves in a world of non-existent indoor plumbing!
What kind of changes/solutions do you wish to seek and what is holding you back from accomplishing your desires?
Do you realize if you remove on form of control another form will take it's place. It may have a different name but the end result is the same.
Sounds like you have been burned by controling men but there will always be controlling men.....this is why the Christian hope of a theocracy is so appealing, it won't be corrupt or corruptible men running us but God's Son who loves us as much as his Father. In Christian faith God's perfection will reign and the social ills of men's control won't be present. We will be live in peace and harmony.......
I was raised as 'entitled' to 'take the lead' and I can tell you even I who was raised to be little Miss Polly Pureheart has had the evil concept of domination cross my mind.... and it scared me enough to drastically derail my theocratic career! The world in this system is just one big ladder, and as long as you are willing to step-up, sacrifice, slave, and seek your end goals then there is little that can't be achieved. The question often become are you willing to step-on, sacrifice, and enslave others to achieve your goal?
FDS=man made rule believed by millions to be gods mouthpiece! If that isn't a trick I don't know what is!
Hasn't the great deception already been perpetrated on mankind? Haven't we already seen the signs of wonders and lying miracles...statues that bleed, people "healed" by television evangelists, etc. etc.? Maybe there will be more deceptions to come.
Ynot, do you still believe there is going to be a paradise earth here on this very planet?
Yes 8 men in NY give way to 1 man, a prevailing personality and from there most of the 7,000,000 JWs believe and follow.
Is that any different the 305,461,000 people who live in the USA and most of whom believe without a doubt that democracy is the best form of governement ever invented in the history of mankind and as flawed as the USA is, it is far better then what Alexander could have ever imagined and it should be spread to the ends of the earth.....
Deception isn't limited to religion, it isn't the result of religion either....... it is a result of the ideology of entitled power. Power is achieved when you enlist the loyalty and control of others......whether that be by coersion or force.
For Christians the entitlement of power is linked back to Satan.....
Yes I still believe in Revelation (I will admit there is no mention of the New System of Christ millennial reign like the WTS paints). I am not sure it will happen in my lifetime. The move toward a global governed world if it takes the traditional route of development will see the unionization of various countries similar to South America and the EU, from there unto larger unions until something or someone comes along and convinces us become one.
You said "Until Jesus comes in the flesh...."....I don't know what has happened in your life but personally even though I spent most of my life under the intense hate of Elders..... learning of and experiencing the love of Father and Son in my first KH(who place more value on scripture over WT literature) has been enough not to let those oppressions keep me from believing in that love. Men do bad things and can become ensnared in their own desires, we are not to be followers of men for that very reason.... the only way we can do that is by seeking God on our own and personally. In that sense church is in your heart not under a steeple.
