Ever had a pointless argument?

by mindfield 12 Replies latest jw friends

mindfield

Well I know I did! To make a long story short... nah, i'll just tell it the way it is. About 3-4 years ago, a @#$@ "brother" made a talk at an assembly. Now, what made this talk so peculiar was that he used a quote from Matt Groening who apparently said "I'm sorry I created the Simpsons, cause I see it has a bad influence on my children... this was to show that the "world" is very, VERY BAD.
Since I was (and still am) a devoted Simpsons fan, I was completely shocked when I heard that "quote". But it took another year to finally get my courage and talk to an elder about it, in the service. We argued about it, and argued some more, and what it came down to is: the quote is right, you're wrong, the brother has more experience than you do, the simpsons are BAD, like most other tv programs, and shut up, will 'ya? But I still believed something didn't tick right. So he told me he would talk to the brother who was in a different cong.
A few months later, the elder proudly told me the quote was taken directly from the Time magazine. I shrugged, and said something like "OK". It took a whole night to find that quote in the Time site, because the article wasn't that recent. When I did find it, guess what I saw? The quote the brother had said wasn't what Matt Groening had said AT ALL!!! Matt had said that maybe Bart Simpson, one of the characters, had a bad influence on his children. Did he regret creating the Simpsons? NO. Did he regret creating Bart? NO. No, no, no. So, a month later (I'm not a courageous guy!) I went back to the elder with this newfound info. I knew it was pointless. But I wanted to prove my point. What did he say? Something like "Oh well, you should listen to older brothers, cause they have more experience than you, and the Simpsons are still bad" DARN IT! I had just shown him the brother had said false info to a huge audience, who's parents probably didn't trust the Simpsons that much before, and who now hated it with a vengeance. (although my JW mom likes watching the Simpsons when she can... she agreed the Simpsons weren't perfect, but it didn't compare to the other tv progs such as south park etc.) ARGH.
Flash forward to 2 years later. (About... 6 months ago.) Our DO (district overseer) comes by to replace our CO. When I can, I go to him and mention the info. i found regarding a certain talk which was given 2-3 years ago. (somehow, i believed it was this DO which had given that talk... woops) He remembered it (!) and agreed with me that brothers should be very careful about what they say at assemblies. Hurrah! The freaking DO had agreed with me! With this "support", I went back to the elder and talked to him again about it. Pointless, I know. We discussed, and you know the rest. He again refused to admit the brother was wrong (maybe he knew, but he just couldn't say it) and changed subject many times to a vocabulary slip he had made years ago and had been reproved for, which was completely not comparable to the misinformation the other @#$@ "brother" had given JW's. And that was the end of that.
Was I correct the whole time? Of course! the DO said I was! and it is now with great vigor that I can say I HATE that elder with a vengeance. I just hate him. Can't have a good discussion with him without him winning, putting me down, etc. Oh well... that was my pointless argument.
Did you folks ever have something you just had to prove to someone, even though you knew it was pointless??? Share please!
Frenchy

Similar.
A few years ago a casino was built right across the KH. Yes! Right across the road. One of the brothers who is part Indian, asked if he could possible get a job there parking cars. When he asked me I told him it would not be permitted. He went over my head (good for him!) and asked the C.O. who told him what I had told him.
A few years later and two more C.O.'s and now there are two members of the congregation working at the casino! That's right. One of the brothers approached the C.O. and asked him when the rules had changed. He said they had not. "Then," The brother told him, "Somebody lied to us."
"Oh no! No one lied." The C.O. contended.
"They said it was wrong and now you say it isn't. Somebody lied." The brother insisted. The C.O. got upset and walked off.
mindfield

JW's working at a casino? Well I never.. where is this cong?
joelbear

Both of these examples show the slippery slope that anyone is on who claims to be an intermediary between man and God.
Joel
mindfield

Exactly my point, Joel. They claim to be God's intermediary channel to men, and yet this brother feels he can take a quote out of context, kick it in the ass a couple times, and present it in front of thousands of WT-Hungry JW's. DAMN I'm angry!
"Thank you Lord, for showing us the truth about that horrible Tv program. Now that our children have nothing else to watch, we shall throw the Wordly box away and study more!"
Crap.
alliwannadoislive

oh mind, mind, mind ... did you not ever learn anything at the KH ? it doesn't matter what the worldlings print, it's what they meant that is important - groening obviously 'meant' that he regretted creating the simpsons - you have to read it in context you see ?
ps - is that hair suitable for meetings ?
Frenchy

"JW's working at a casino? Well I never.. where is this cong?"
In one of the Southern states.
RunningMan

Well, it's about time that someone else made this observation.
About 3 years ago, our DO gave a talk at the circuit assembly where he
quoted Matt Groening as appologizing for creating "The Simpsons".
Our entire district took this as a ban on the show. It took a couple of years before
people began watching again.
Well, a while ago, I saw an interview on TV of Matt Groening, and believe it or not,
the DO's comment was actually right - word for word. However, it was apparent to
me that Matt was joking when he said it. It was a tongue in cheek appology to parents
for unleashing Bart Simpson on the world.
JW's aren't even smart enough to tell when someone is yanking their chain.
mindfield

AllIwannadoislive :
You should've seen it when it was dyed red! Hehe...I shocked a couple JW's then... Truly fun.
RunningMan:
Really? I guess the Time magazine has a lot of JW readers, huh? Apparently it's also a strong base for all that filler the Awake has; the WT uses it a lot. (that's what a brother told me) And I do agree with you, whatever Matt Groening said, it was a joke. Hear that??? A JOKE! As if he's going to create another program, similar to the simpsons (futurama) with almost the same characters a few months after saying that!
LDH

Yes, except mine involved a judicial committee.....
Some years back (7-8) I was a supervisor at a claims office of one of the nation's largest insurers, and I pulled rank to get a sister a job over other better qualified applicants. (VERY BAD KARMA)
This sister was in her mid-50's, VERY dysfunctional (her mom and dad were 'annointed'. As long as I knew her, she was doing jobs like greeting people at Walmart, or handing out samples at the supermarket.
This particular job was no gold mine, but at $8.50 hr with FULL medical and retirement benefits, in my mind this was the job she could work at for the rest of the system of things!
I stressed to her (her brother was a 'superfine' elder at the time) how IMPORTANT it was for her not to miss ANY of the six week training course, where she would use a computer for the first time in her life, etc etc etc.
Anyhow, as luck would have it, her four time df'd son, wife-beater, druggie and cheater that he was, wrecked his motorcycle whilst living in FL. EVERYONE begged her to please not go and see about him, he was in a coma and not expected to live. She REALLY needed this job. BTW, she was/is single and men run from her like she has rabies.
Against ALL advice she went to FL to be with her son ,and stayed with him in the hosp for four weeks, out of the six week training course.
Needless to say, she was not fired because I continued to pull rank, but she NEVER caught up or caught on to the job, and was a very poor worker.
Some months (12-15) later, the company merged with another HUGE insurer, and cutbacks/layoffs were imminent. Claims processors were given two months to improve their performance and productivity. Because I was a supervisor, I was privy to some internal documents that clearly warned which team members were in danger of losing their jobs. What a shock, this sister's name was on the list.
I BEGGED her to stay at work late, take home reading materials etc etc. She did not.
Two months later, she was called into the top dog's office and cut with impunity. They had to drag her out because she was screaming and crying, no shit.
That afternoon after work, I went to my parents house to pick my daughter up. I'm standing on the porch talking to my parents, and who should pull up but this sister. She gets out of her car, yelling and screaming, and telling me how I'm the reason she lost her job!
After a few minutes of my dad being nice, my mother told her to get her arse off her property.
The next night, I'm approached by Bro. Superfine Elder, and he tells me there is 'a matter of some urgency that needs to be discussed after the meeting.'
I go in the elder's room and see two other elders there waiting for me. I said, "I will gladly stay but first I will go get my father who will witness these proceedings."
This bitch then goes into her crying routine, telling the 'elders' how I've forced her to lose her job.
I very calmy proceed to remind her how many warnings I gave her, and the assistance I offered her, and how I TOLD her she was in danger of losing her job, because of POOR JOB PERFORMANCE. You woulda thought I called that bitch a streetwalker. Her 'Superfine' elder brother looses his temper, goes RED in the face, and tells me I'm in danger of being df'd for 'spreading malicious gossip.' He told me I was a liar, as well. (Mind you, no one knew except my parents and the people she told.)
I said, "If I can prove what I'm saying, will you apologize and force $*#& to apologize too, in front of everyone in this room?"
So he agrees to and WHAMMO I whipped out my CONFIDENTIAL memo (yes I smelled it coming and I was prepared) that clearly showed that this sister lost her job together with 3 other people for repeated poor attendance and job performance.
Dead quiet. My dad says, "You owe Lisa an apology."
You woulda thought he said, "Cut your dick off." This elder hemmed and hawed for about 5 minutes and then said "Well I'm sorry!" His sister flat out refused, she got up and left the meeting.
I told the whole 'kangaroo committee' they had no right questioning the ENTIRE situation, and to never call a committee on me again for that stupid shit.
Mindfield, I relate this story because of how deeply it affected me. Now, 7-8 years later, I realize I was engaged in a battle of wits with unarmed opponents.
If that happened to me today, I would say, "Fuck off. Sue me if you think you've got a case."
Your story, somehow, doesn't surprise me either.
Lisa

Ever had a pointless argument?

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