Is the Bible the word of God?

by Number1Anarchist 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    look at the the prophecies concerning Jesus and how all the books (66) are connected with one another even though they were written (as far as we are aware) by 40 different authors over the course of 4,000 or so years.

    Are these texts really prophecies of Jesus per se -- or are they simply passages from the OT that were utilized in the NT in composing and explaining the story of Jesus? The early Christian use of these passages frequently disregard the original meaning or context of the text -- the "prophetical" meaning is not present in the original text but only arises through its later eisegetical reinterpretation (as is often the case in Jewish midrash).

    For example, Matthew 2:17 refers to Herod's slaying of male infants as fulfilling Jeremiah 31:15-16 when in fact the latter passage is simply one of many statements in Jeremiah about the Babyonian devastation of Judah and the captivity...it only has messianic prophetic significance because a later writer wanted to invest it with that meaning. The text is not saying that Rachel (= the ancestor mother of the tribes of Benjamin and Joseph) is weeping because some madman king Herod killed off all her descendents, or even all the male children of hers. It clearly implies that her children are "no more" not because they are all dead but because they are all in captivity in foreign lands...the next verse says that she can now stop weeping because her children are coming home from the enemy country. This is an entirely different concept than how the author of Matthew uses the verse. Another example is the reference in Matthew 27:7-10 to Judas fulfilling Jeremiah's prophecy. Here the author is consciously basing his story on an OT text, which he quotes as Jeremiah's prophecy. The problem is that no such passage exists in Jeremiah or anywhere else in the OT. Essentially the author has conflated two separate readings of Zechariah 11:13 and combined them with a few motifs from Jeremiah 18-19 and 32, freely rewrote the whole thing as a Jeremianic prophecy, and then claimed that the event happened in order to fulfill this prophecy that the author of Matthew composed years later.

    For example, in Psalm 22:16 (which was written before crucifixion was even a thought and stoning was the capital punishment in use at the time) it mentions piercing hands and feet. Well, what happened to Jesus?

    This is an excellent example of how a "prophetic" interpretation is read into the text (at least since the time of Justin Martyr, who cited it as a prophecy of Jesus) without regard to what the passage actually says. "They have pierced my hands and feet" is not quite an accurate translation of the Hebrew k'rw ydy w-rgly, the sense of which is closer to "they dug into my hands and feet" (with the root krh "to dig"). Similarly, the LXX uses a form of orussein which again pertains more to digging or burrowing into the earth (cf. Matthew 21:33, 25:18, Mark 12:1), and the Latin fathers who utilized the text (including Tertullian, Cyprian, Lactantius, Augustine, and Cassiodorus) used the word foderunt "they have dug" as well. The metaphorical meaning of this phrase is appreciated once the identity of the "they" is established: the ones who are "digging into my hands and feet" are the klbym `dt "crowd of dogs" surrounding the speaker mentioned in the same verse, i.e. the assembly of the wicked is imagined as a pack of dogs savagely “digging” at the psalmist's hands and feet with their claws and teeth. This image is entirely different from that of piercing one’s hands and feet on a cross. That the psalmist had the former in mind is clearly indicated in v. 20 when he asks to be rescued "from the paw of the dog" (m-yd klb).

  • Vachi 8 He Is
    Vachi 8 He Is

    "Unless, of course, you don't have a problem taking others' explanations for your own."-Slappy Slappy, isn't that exactly what people are doing when it comes to this relic? People wrote it, said they were inspired by god, and passed it down. If I wanted man back then to follow my agenda all I would have to say is "God told me so". And like Wizard said, we are using the bible to prove the bible. Imean it's like walking in on someone standing over a dead body and they go "I didn't do it." and you go "Oh well okay." What else are they gonna say? I was in California a couple months ago at a Starbucks and talked to the salesperson who was on a coffee break about this very same topic. We both traded some good views. HERE'S THE PROBLEM: That sentence about me visiting Cali was a complete lie. But if I hadn't told you that previous admittance you would've believed I got into a discussion with someone in California. The bible's problem is it's all about things that supposedly happened way back before even our great, great, great, great, great (to be cont'd) grandparents were even a gleam in THEIR parents eye. And we do not/can not have a universal absolute understanding of these events because everyone on Earth at this time was not around back then. So we're left with speculation on a topic that we can't prove either way and to wrap our minds around it or "put a face on it" we just go with it. If god wanted to he could/should stop the world and simultaneously speak to everyone of us and tell us what he wants (if anything). And if one makes the argument that the bible is that voice, he should tell us again and stop being so damn lazy. Is he too important? Wouldn't that be filed under pride? If your son/daughter asked you how to get to an out of the way location, would you tell them once and throw back a cold one while your child got lost and even came to the conclusion that there was never a you in the first place, or if there is that you're the biggest procrastinator in the history of procrastinator-dom? I'm just saying.

  • Eyes Open
    Eyes Open

    No, the bible is not the word of God.

  • ecuador
    ecuador

    IMO, there is no other book that has stood the tests that the Bible has stood over the years. I believe it is God's Word, and that it can be trusted to tell us all that we need to know about God.

  • Brother Apostate
    Brother Apostate

    I believe the Bible is the word of God:

    "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." - 2 Timothy 3:16-17

    I believe that it takes faith to please God, and believe in His word:

    "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." - Hebrews 11:6

    I believe that faith is not a possesion of all men:

    "And pray that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men, for not everyone has faith." - 2 Thessalonians 3:2

    I believe that if you read His word, and apply it in your life, you will come to KNOW that it is His word.

    BA- It starts with faith.

  • drwtsn32
    drwtsn32

    BA, So in other words, the bible is the word of God because it says it is the word of God. And it takes faith (ie, belief without proof/evidence) to accept the Bible as God's word. That's like saying you have to believe it before you can believe it. Stunning.

  • Brother Apostate
    Brother Apostate
    BA, So in other words, the bible is the word of God because it says it is the word of God. And it takes faith (ie, belief without proof/evidence) to accept the Bible as God's word. That's like saying you have to believe it before you can believe it. Stunning.

    Not what I said. If you avoid reading the Scriptures I quoted, it may be clearer. Here is a second attempt, to augment (not replace), what I stated above: - Have (develop) faith in God (believe He exists, and that He cares about you). - Believe the Bible is His inspired word. - Pray to Him for His Holy Spirit to come upon you before you read His word, the Bible. - Read the Bible, pouring over each word, each sentence, each paragraph, in context (I suggest sticking to the New Testament until you have a desire to read the OT, which you will). - Apply what you learn in your life, in your dealings with others. IF you do so, you will see that it is God's word. You will eventually have no doubts. Your faith will grow, as well as your understanding and application. IF you do not, then you will remain as you are, a doubter. There is no other way to explain it that I can think of right now. BA- It's a chicken and egg issue- faith grows only if you exercise it.

  • Brother Apostate
    Brother Apostate

    PrimateDave,

    Are you dense?

    I did not say it's God's word because it says so.

    Try a reading comprehension class.

    Better yet, try what I described in my posts on this thread.

    You will only be convinced if you try it.

    If you don't try it, you will remain a doubter.

    BA- Take my advice, you'll be ecstatic that you did.

  • PrimateDave
    PrimateDave

    [Smiles] BA, I was once quite enamored of the Bible. I especially enjoyed reading the Gospel of John. Even in the NWT version, it is a beautiful read. Also, the book of Acts of the Apostles was always quite engaging. The other three gospels and Paul's letters, however, weren't quite so interesting, but I did read them. Granted, I read them through the lenses of the Watchtower publications because that is all I have known. At some point I shall reread them to see if my perspective on them has changed, but I will undoubtedly have a much more critical and mature eye than before. With experience in life one becomes far more able to discern thoughts and intentions of others in their writings.

    Please don't get me wrong. I am not against religion or faith. It is just that I have acquired information that now makes the Bible and its gods irrelevant to me outside of a historical/cultural context. To me, the Bible is ancient literature. It is obviously a part of my culture, and as such, I have endeavored to understand its origins within the broad context of human history.

    I do not intend to insult you, and it is hard for me to convey my sense of humor through my posts. I know you are sincere in your beliefs, but I did intentionally destroy my faith, and I cannot go back.

    Dave

  • Number1Anarchist
    Number1Anarchist

    Sorry for the slow reply for all your comments but i'm taking a class to get me prepared for college!

    Thank you so much for all yor responses! I am excited because i'm finally going to college!

    You guys are the best and i do love this site! It has helped me so much!

    Thank You again!

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