John 8:3-11 The Women Caught in Adultery.

by Blueblades 18 Replies latest jw friends

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  Blueblades

  The favorite Bible story of Jesus's forgiving the woman caught in adultery ( John 8: 3-11 ) doesn't belong in the Bible.

  To the careful reader, the story raises numerous questions. If this women was caught in the act of adultery, for example, where is the man she was caught with? Both of them are to be stoned, according to the law of Moses ( see Lev. 20:10 )

  Moreover, when Jesus wroye on the ground, what exactly was he writing? ( according to one ancient tradition, he was writing the sins of the accusers, who seeing their own transgressions were known, left in embarrassment! )

  And even if Jesus did teach a message of love, did he really think that the law of God given by Moses was no longer in force and should not be obeyed? Did he think sins should not be punished at all?

  As it turns out the story was not in the original Gospel of John. It was added by later scribes.

  I found this in the book "Misquoting Jesus" The story behind who changed the Bible and why. Bart D, Ehrman. Is he to be believed? If he is ,it raises other questions about what Jesus is supposed to have said and done in the Gospel accounts.

  Blueblades Who is still reading and searching for and against the inspiration of the Bible, that it is actually from God.
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  Leolaia

  The writers of the gospels did not intend to represent the totality of early tradition about Jesus and the author of John indicated that there were other stories that were not included in the book (John 20:30; cf. 21:25). It is true that the pericope found in the present text of John 7:53-8:11 was an addition to the text, but also clearly was an early tradition (Papias knew of a similar story told by the elders and those who knew the apostles, and the author of the Infancy Gospel of James seems to have known it as well), and was probably one of the early stories that could have been utilized by the gospel writers but was not. There are other early manuscripts that contain stories that are very similar in content and form to those in the canonical gospels (cf. PEgerton 2, POxy 840, POxy 1224). It has been noticed that the Pericope Adulterae has a Lukan style so one theory is that it belongs to the Lukan collection of stories but which did not end up in the Third Gospel. Evidently it was added to the text of one of the four canonical gospels (which became circulated together as a collection as early as Justin Martyr by c. 150) because it was thought that it was too good to be lost. And I have to agree.
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  Leolaia

  On the Lukan connection, you may observe:

  Luke 21:37-38: "And every day he was teaching in the temple, but at night he went out and lodged on the mount called Olivet. And early in the morning all the people came to him in the temple to hear him.
  

  John 7:53-8:2: "They went each to his own house, but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Early in the morning he came again to the temple; all the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them".

  One interesting theory is that it originally was located immediately following Luke 20:19 but was removed because of its apparent moral leniancy. Also it has been observed by Rius-Camps that there are actually two main versions of the pericope in the textual tradition -- one of which has a distinctively Markan style. So it is possible that the author of Luke, if he in fact included the pericope, utilized it from Mark and that the pericope was removed from Mark as well (where it would have occurred after Mark 12:12). Then later copyists tried to reinsert it into the canonical gospel collection but did so at different places (after John 7:52 in some manuscripts, after Luke 21:28 in others, after John 21:25 in a few others, after John 7:36 in two minuscules, and at the end of Luke in one manuscript).
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  The Lone Ranger

  I agree with you Blueblades, but also does the WTS, thats why in the NWT its not included.
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  Blueblades

  Thanks Leolaia and The Lone Ranger.Leolaia, I have read many of your post topics and responses, evidently you are well read and do a lot of research. Again, these are stories that have been passed down by word of mouth. What is true and what is embellished? My question is, are they truly the words inspired by God to these first century Apostles, followers of Jesus or are they the words of men who actually heard and witnessed, then recorded from memory what they heard and saw.

  The bottom line of what I am seeking is whether or not the Bible is a history book written by men or it is really God inspired. To me that is a life or death question.

  Blueblades
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  abbagail

  Hey Blue... don't give up on scripture just yet...
  
  Have you ever heard the saying, The Bible always interprets itself? That helps... whether a word or situation, etc., it is usually elsewhere connected in scripture. Another saying is that the OT is the NT concealed, and the NT is the OT revealed.
  
  Also, whenever you have a question re: a verse or section, do you ask for the Holy Spirit -- the teacher, guide, comforter -- to guide you to the answer? He'll really do it...
  
  [...]
  If this women was caught in the act of adultery, for example, where is the man she was caught with? Both of them are to be stoned, according to the law of Moses ( see Lev. 20:10 )
  [...]
  
  Maybe he got away by the hair of his chinny chin chin, leaving his clothes behind, sort of like Joseph. ;-) j/k I've heard people wonder and joke that, "How did the pharisees catch the women in the act anyway? Were they in the room? Maybe she was with one of their own pharisees..." etc. so they "covered his butt" so to speak, and wanted to hang her out to dry instead.
  
  It wouldn't surprise me if they went looking for someone committing a grave sin so they could again try to trick Jesus to speak against the Law since that's what they were always trying to do, to "set him up" so to speak.
  
  [...]
  Moreover, when Jesus wrote on the ground, what exactly was he writing? ( according to one ancient tradition, he was writing the sins of the accusers, who seeing their own transgressions were known, left in embarrassment! )
  [...]
  
  Close enough! Compare Jeremiah 17:13:
  
  (JPS1917 OT) Jeremiah 17:13 -- Thou hope of Israel, the LORD! All that forsake Thee shall be ashamed; they that depart from Thee shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.
  
  One commentary:
  
  [...]
  Shall be written in the earth-in the dust, i.e., shall be consigned to oblivion. So Jesus' significant writing "on the ground"-probably the accusers' names (John 8:6). Names written in the dust are obliterated by a very slight wind. Their hopes and celebrity are wholly in the earth, not in the heavenly book of life (Rev 13:8; 20:12,15). The Jews, though boasting that they were the people of God, had no portion in heaven, no status before God and His angels. Contrast "written in heaven," i.e., in the muster-roll of its blessed citizens (Luke 10:20). Also contrast the expression for perpetual remembrance, "written in a book," and "in the rock forever" (Job 19:23-24) [Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary].
  [...]
  
  Back to Blueblades....
  
  [...]
  And even if Jesus did teach a message of love, did he really think that the law of God given by Moses was no longer in force and should not be obeyed? Did he think sins should not be punished at all?
  [...]
  
  He didn't dismiss the law – he DID tell them to stone her, but that the one without sin be the first to judge and to cast the first stone. Since they all knew they were sinners -- esp. after he exposed them in the sand -- TWICE -- they departed one by one. The law required two witnesses to put her to death but there was no one left to act as the two witnesses, so how could the law be properly fulfilled? It couldn't. She had a hung jury, so to speak.
  
  
  [...]
  Blueblades Who is still reading and searching for and against the inspiration of the Bible, that it is actually from God.
  [...]
  
  Sounds painful, Blue. I feel for you. Aside from the mental and intellectual gymnastics, does the Word speak to your heart at all... anywhere in the Book?
  
  /ag
  
  PS: Can't comment on your author/book, don't know anything about the guy.
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  minimus

  Blue, you bring up some good scriptural points of interest.

  The Law WAS still in effect. Jesus practiced and duly observed the Law. Why did he presume to ignore the written Law??
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  oompa

  when my bible opens up all by itself....and the pages flip to Ps. 83: 18 and stop........i MIGHT start believing some of it........oompa
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  oompa

  Lone Ranger: I agree with you Blueblades, but also does the WTS, thats why in the NWT its not included.

  Ranger, i dont get your comment...i just cut and pasted this from the WTCD from the NWT reference Bible????........oompa

  (John

  8:1-11)8 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 At daybreak, however, he again presented himself at the temple, and all the people began coming to him, and he sat down and began to teach them. 3 Now the scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught at adultery, and, after standing her in their midst, 4 they said to him: "Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of committing adultery. 5 In the Law Moses prescribed for us to stone such sort of women. What, really, do you say?" 6 Of course, they were saying this to put him to the test, in order to have something with which to accuse him. But Jesus bent down and began to write with his finger in the ground. 7 When they persisted in asking him, he straightened up and said to them: "Let the one of YOU that is sinless be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 And bending over again he kept on writing in the ground. 9 But those who heard this began going out, one by one, starting with the older men, and he was left alone, and the woman that was in their midst. 10 Straightening up, Jesus said to her: "Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?" 11 She said: "No one, sir." Jesus said: "Neither do I condemn you. Go your way; from now on practice sin no more."
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  BurnTheShips

  The Law WAS still in effect. Jesus practiced and duly observed the Law. Why did he presume to ignore the written Law??

  He was given the power to forgive sin by the Father. He also had the authority to interpret the Law correctly. The Law was there to prepare for what was to come, and that was Jesus.

  BTS