Any thoughts on this quote from the Bible?

by siegswife 24 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • RR
    RR

    Well, you didn't ask me to explain the verse, you asked what leaven was. lol ...

    Jesus illustrated the experiences of His Church as an "embryotic Kingdom". I believe this parable demonstrates that. He tells of a woman who hid some leaven in three measures of meal until the whole batch was leavened. This, to me signifies a corrupting of the Good News, the spiritual Food which God had prepared for the Church.

    A woman in symbolic language represents a church system; and the
    Lord tells us that such a church system will mix leaven, or ferment, in the food of the family of God until the whole mass will be corrupted. It should be noted as I stated earlier that leaven in the Bible is always used as a symbol of corruption, of sin. This parable shows that the faith once delivered to the saints would be lost, mixed with error, until it would no longer be nourishing to the
    family.

    The Apostle Paul pictures the same matter, saying that in the latter days "some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons." 1 Timothy 4:1.

    It can be seen that these false doctrines are what are troubling Christians today. Our hearts are better than our heads; for the hearts of the consecrated Christian is in tune with God, while the creeds of the Dark Ages are out of tune. The blessings that many are receiving tody is largely the result of breaking loose from the creeds formulated in the Dark Ages, and getting back to the teachings of Jesus, the Apostles and the Prophets, the only inspired authorities. Their words alone constitute the proper food where we are to be nourished. The Word of God is sufficient, that the man of God may be thoroughly furnished. 2 Timothy 3:16,17.

    Some Christian, looking at matters evidently from the wrong angle, are still deceived into thinking that it is possible for the Church, as the Kingdom of God in an embryotic condition, to do the work which God assigns to that Church in her future glorified, perfected condition. They shut their eyes to the fact that the number
    of non-christians in proportion to the number of Christians doubles every century. They try to count up Christians by the hundreds of millions, entirely ignoring the fact that Jesus stated that the Gospel Church, the Elect, who are walking in His steps, will be altogether but a Little Flock. Luke 11:32.

    ____________________________
    "Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional."

  • siegswife
    siegswife

    Here are a couple of translations that seem to put the verses in two different lights:

    Luke 13:20,21 :: New Living Translation (NLT)
    Luke 13
    Illustration of the Yeast

    20He also asked, "What else is the Kingdom of God like? 21It is like yeast used by a woman making bread. Even though she used a large amount[1] of flour, the yeast permeated every part of the dough."

    1. 13:21 Greek 3 measures.
    *This sounds like it's saying that a little truth will prevail.

    Luke 13:20,21 :: Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
    Luke 13
    20
    And again he said, `To what shall I liken the reign of God?
    21
    It is like leaven, which a woman, having taken, did hide in three measures of meal, till that all was leavened.'

    *In this one it sounds as if the leaven was stolen and hidden.

  • GinnyTosken
    GinnyTosken

    Pomegranate,

    Hmm. A non-believer in the Bible showing believers in the Bible what to believe about the Bible.
    Not at all. My intent was simply to offer a reference I had at hand, one I thought might be of interest to you in deciding for yourself how the passages should be interpreted.

    Just as you are under no obligation to accept the opinions of posters in this thread, neither are you under any obligation to accept the commentary from The Five Gospels.

    BTW, I think that Jesus meant that while his teachings were viewed as a corrupting and evil influence by the established Jewish order, his simple laws were light compared to the Mosaic law code and would eventually permeate Jewish culture.

    Ginny, shaking the dust from her feet

    [Edited to add "BTW . . ."]

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Siegs

    Actually it was a dumb thing to try to do. Kind of like hiding a fox in the henhouse. The process has barely begun.

    --

    Pom

    Ok. I thought you were a 'lawkeeper' too.

    SS

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    >>This, to me signifies a corrupting of the Good News,<<

    Really?

    ...the kingdom of God? It is like leaven...

    ...the Kingdom of God like? It is like yeast...

    ...the reign of God? It is like leaven...

    It does NOT say the kingdom of God is like flour
    It dos NOT say the kingdom of God is like the woman
    It does NOT say the kingdom of God is like three vessels
    It DOES say the kingdom of God is like leaven.

    I believe the leaven cannot be bad as the kingdom is not bad. Comparison is for GOOD. We have a definite COMPARISON happening here. We do not have a CONTRAST happening.

    Next, I do not see leaven likened to corruption anywhere in the context. I see in the context leaven as likened to the Kingdom of God, by comparison.

    Actually, where does it mention corruption ANYWHERE in the context? The only thing mentioned in the context is the kingdom, the woman, the yeast and the three containers of flour. Which, may I ask is the corruption? Nothing contextual, correct? Well, Obviously NOT the kingdom. Is the woman corruption? Nothing in the context says so. Is the yeast corruption? Well, the yeast has been compared to the kingdom, if the yeast is corrupttion, so is God's kingdom

    ...the kingdom of God? it is like leaven...PERMEATES.

    I believe the "leaven of God" will permeate when the time is right.

    I believe the three vessels are important too.

    ************

    The Greek, word for word translation:

    And (kai) again (palin) he said (eipen) what (tini) shall I liken (homoioosoo) the (teen) kingdom (basileian) of God (Theou)?

    like (homoia) it is (estin) leaven (zumee) which (heen) took (labousa) woman (gunee) hid (enekrupsen) in (es) flour (aleurou), measures (sata) three (tria), til (heeos) was leavened (ezumoothee) whole (holon).

    I don't get "stolen" contextually out of either translation you quoted or the word for word Greek.

    I hide eggs for my kids on Easter. Just because I hid them, I swear, I didn't steal them.

    ********************

    >>My intent was simply to offer a reference I had at hand, one I thought might be of interest to you in deciding for yourself how the passages should be interpreted.<<

    Your intent was never revealed by you on your original post. As you can see, that lack of not knowing your intent even made me believe you beleived what you posted from that reference.

    My mistake? OK by me.

    ************************

    >>Ok. I thought you were a 'lawkeeper' too.<<<

    Maybe the former, not the latter. That's not for me to decide.

  • willy_think
    willy_think

    luke 31.18-21
    i think it is a mistake to take too small a quote out of the bible so i'll talk about both parables if i may.

    two parables used to illustrate the future proportions of the kingdom of god that will result from its deceptively small beginning in the preaching and healing ministry of jesus. you can find hem paralleled in Mt 13.31-33 and Mk 4.30-32

    these are parables of remarkable growth conveying the living, dynamic sense of the "kingdom of god" fulfilling promises
    like Dan 4.10-12 Ezek 17. 22-24; 31.2-9

    willy think: thread killer

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    I agree

  • Thomas Poole
    Thomas Poole

    What is this "The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven."?

    Leven denotes mostly
    1. designs of immorality, such as malice and wickedness.
    2. false doctrine, such as that of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

    However, herewith, leven seems to be taken in a good sense.
    The kingdom of God is compared unto leven, not for its disagreeable qualities, but on account of its small quantity that levens the whole lump, as the grain of mustard seed does.
    This leven is the small beginnings of the Gospel, and its meanness is in the eyes of men.
    This good leven is of a piercing, penetrating, and spreading nature, such that the Gospel
    - reaches the conscience,
    - pierces the heart,
    - enlightens the understanding,
    - informs the judgment,
    - raises and sets the affections on right objects
    - subdues the will
    - brings down all towering thoughts, to the obedience of Christ.

    Also, this good leven penetrates and makes its way, under divine influence, through
    - towns.
    - cities.
    - kingdoms.
    - nations.

    Also, due to the good leven's heating, swelling, and assimilating nature; so the Gospel, as it takes root
    - warms the affections.
    - causes the heart to burn within.
    - inspires zeal for God, and Christ, and the Gospel.
    - swells and fills churches with such as shall be saved.

    This good leven also
    - assimilates the persons it which it operates,
    - makes them alike one another, such as one bread, one body, having
    like precious faith, knowledge, and experience, though in a
    different degree.

    Re: John Gill's Exposition of the Bible, Matthew 13:33
    http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/GillsExpositionoftheBible/gil.cgi?book=mt&chapter=13&verse=33

    In Christ,

    tp

  • zerubberballz
    zerubberballz

    Let's see now chaps, we can do better than this .. The biblical Kingdom of God is like a loaf of bread, it smelt good as a fresh idea but after a while the maggots got in and only desperate dogs would eat it. (hey go easy you merry christian bablenuts .. i could'a said your kingdom of God is like a shit sandwich but without the bread)

    Let God speak for herself I say .. or better still stay in the kitchen and let me get on with life ;)

    unclebruce (short on recipies for universal governancy boys)

    PS: OK, OK, I'll be serious .. Nice points all, we can play "this is what Luke really meant" till the cows come home .. but without understanding or even reference to historical context you're just playing with yourselves. Here's the historic truth in a nutshell - These words were attributed to Jesus by Paul via Luke yes? Pauls agenda was to turn the Jewish diaspora against Jesus Nazarites and thus strengthen the Roman/Pharisee hold on the religious/political affairs of Palestine yes? Would you not call that process of myth/Christ making employed by Paul throughout the Greek speaking world a levening? Simple eh? (but way over the heads of our resident bible scholars and history bluffs no doubt. lol)

    schools out .. off you go .. enough god bothering for today .. geez, how do you people hold a straight face? (i guess not being able to sleep at night does that to fundamental jesusfreaks and biblenutters ;)

  • siegswife
    siegswife

    I've been trying to relate this to the reality of the situation today. I'm inclining to think that the leaven might relate to the hypocricy and falsehood that 'permeates' religion today. In other scriptures Jesus warned the disciples to watch out for the leaven of the pharisees and Herod (Rome?/governments?). That really sounds like the state of religion today. It's full of hypocricy and politics.

    On the otherhand, since it's still a work in progress, maybe whatever truth is in our beliefs will grow to where we can overcome the differences.

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