Waters above the Firmament as the source of rain

by VM44 12 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  VM44

  From the King James Bible

  God said, "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

  Whether the firmament was considered to be made up of a solid material, or was simply an expanse, it is clear that the ancients thought that there was a body of water ABOVE heaven.

  Where does water appear to come from when it rains? Heaven. Thus the "Waters above the Firmament" was simply the ancient Jewish explanation for the source of the water when it rains.

  This is so clear I do see why anything could be said against this understanding.

  Except it is unacceptable to those who believe that the Bible is the word of God, because there are NO waters above the heavens (the firmament)! And so they have a problem!
• 

  BarefootServant

  But do you think the bible writer was so stupid that he did not realise that big black clouds passing over seemed to be connected with rain? In which case, he must have known perfectly well that the source of rain was clouds in the sky, and not something above the sky? Leaving the question, what was he really trying to tell us?
• 

  poppers

  Without knowing anything about the water cycle their explanation would seem to make sense.
• 

  blondie

  Doesn't the WTS base that idea on the works of Isaac Vail?

  28. The Golden Age: Aug. 17, 1921, pp. 677-9; July 5, 1922, pp. 622-4.

  In the footnote they explain their belief in the 'Vail' or 'canopy' theory which held that the flood was caused by the collapse of a ring of water vapor that surrounded the early earth. The note in the Appendix states:

  Isaac Vail, author and scientist, corroborates the Biblical account of the Flood in his theory of creation, which is briefly but thoroughly and convincingly reviewed in STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES, Vol. VI, chapter 1.... The earth at this period must have resembled Saturn with its "rings." The breaking down of these rings, long periods apart, furnished numerous deluges. The water, strongly mineralized, covered the entire surface of the earth, just as described in Genesis. (p. 259)(Angels and Women)

  The Society used to promote Isaac Vail's theory of the Flood. See the Dec. 1, 1912 Watch Tower, p. 372 (p. 5140 Reprints); Creation, 1927, pp. 25-30; The Truth Shall Make You Free, 1943, pp. 57-62. It was referred to until the mid-1950s.
• 

  VM44

  That water falls from the clouds is certainly observed by all people whether ancient or modern.

  But the question is: Where do the clouds in the sky get the water that falls from them as rain?

  The Genesis account specifically states that there are both waters above and below the firmament (heaven), and that the earth stands "compactly out of the waters"

  What did the ancient jewish people mean by "The waters above the firmament"?
• 

  VM44

  Thanks Blondie for those references to Isaac Vail's theory of the Earth's Annular Canopy.

  Isaac Vail was a Quaker school teacher whose theory was that the earth was surrounded by various bands that fell to earth from time to time.

  Only The Watchtower gave credence to Vails theory, reputable scientists ignored him as someone who with a crackpot theory that was so removed from reality that "it wasn't even wrong"!
• 

  mary stewart

  the buybull is so silly! based on certain passages about beating the heavens like a mirror, it seems those old goat herders thought it was a solid substance. hehe. rain is in the clouds! and clouds are HARDLY an expanse/firmament!
• 

  jaguarbass

  When I used to believe the bible.

  My understanding was that god knew everything.

  He knew he was going to destroy the earth with a flood.

  So he had additional waters stored up in space for the occasion.

  If you want to believe you can always find an explanation.

  If you dont want to believe you can always find a reason not to.

  Myself I'm just trying to figure out what is going on.
• 

  VM44

  It looks like the writer of Genesis just wasn't clear as to what he meant by "The Waters above the firmament"

  This scripture doesn't at all "set things straight"
• 

  nomoreguilt

  I recall the wts teaching that the expanse of waters,the firmament, is what caused the entire earth to have what is considered a greenhouse/hothouse atmosphere. Thus, when the flood came the entire earth underwent a change that thus created the 4 seasons. Certain areas of the earth became warmer others became cooler. All of this was attributed to the sudden FALLING or breakdown/release of the firmament/heavenly expanse of waters. The FLOOD. Their explanation, not mine.

  NMG