WOW!!! Never thought about the presumptuousness in using a 360 day calendar to make the 2520 year calculation, and then switching to 365 day solar year calendar to arrive at a conclusion.
This thread is absolute GOLD!!!
Another excellent talking point with the friends...
Thanks for posting this!!!
Lukewarm
time=360 days 7-times=2520 days 2520 days=2520(365 day per year)years?
by still_in74 49 Replies latest watchtower bible
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LUKEWARM
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still_in74
Thanks for the Kudos Lukewarm... special thanks to leolaia who continues to make all of us sound smart!
we can spend hours and days trying to tear apart complex teachings of the WTS and to no avail with JW's and even to non/ex JW apologists. But sometimes all you need is one simple fact that blasts a 2 foot in the heart of a major theoligical position of the WTS.
changing the math in a formula half way is akin to failing math in school and working as an accountant.
It sounded good for these boys at the time but now its all about damage control and protecting the one huge basket they have all their eggs in - 1914
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wobble
of course,even if they could rationalise about the calendars,their start date of 607bc is wrong,so 1914 has no significance in Bible prophecy,and choosing of an FDS Class did not take place in 1919 and the Gibbering Bottie and all Jehovah's Witnesses have no right to use the word "truth"
Love
Wobble
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LUKEWARM
For the benefit of anybody who may have missed this, I am amazed that both the solar and lunar calendars have been made to fit in identifying 1914!
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NewYork44M
But there is a big and sticky problem with that. If the 1914 "Last Days and Jesus' INVISIBLE PRESENCE (oxymoron!)" date is off, then the 1919 appointment of the "Faithful and Discreet Slave CLASS" has to be off, too. 1919 is directly tied by the WTS to 1914. If one falls, both fall. "Time, times and half a time" = 3 1/2 years = 1919. If that is true, then not only their claim they were picked as that "Slave CLASS" is highly suspect, the fact that they couldn't even predict WHEN they were picked as that "Slave CLASS" makes that claim idiotic. If they cannot get the "picking" date right, then their claims to that "picking" falls into the toilet where it belongs.
That pretty much did it for me. Once I debunked 1914 everything else came crashing down. You can't have all the other jw beliefs without 1914.
This is an excellent thread.
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wobble
btt
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pirata
btt. Great thread here!
Let's see if I have this straight.
It sounds like a Jewish year was 354 days, so to map the Jewish Calender to the Solar Calender, we need to jewish lunar years by 0.97 (354/365) to get the equivalent Solar years.
So if we apply this to the WT calculation starting at 537 BCE we get:
70 Jewish years = 67.9 solar years.
537 BCE - 67.9 solar years= 604 BCE
7 years @ a day for a year = 2478 (3*254) Jewish years = 2403.7 Solar years
604 BCE + 2403.7 solar years = 1800.7 (I added one to account for the year zero)
Does that sound about right (in terms of doing the same "1914" calculation with the correct Jewish year)?
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Ding
They would just say that Jehovah knew the calendar change would occur and therefore prophesied the key year as it would be viewed by the FDS.
Watchtower circular logic: A prophetic year is whatever the FDS says it is, even if it's being used to prove that the FDS is really the FDS.
This brings up the interesting question as to the real reasons why JWs believe the WTS is "God's organization."
If you asked the JWs you know, "Why are you convinced that the WTBTS is God's organization?" would they mention the 1914 chronology at all?
I mean, if you tell them the 607 foundational date is bogus, most of them shut their eyes and won't even look at the evidence.
Why? Because they don't want to hear anything contrary to what "God's organization" teaches even if it might prove that their claim to be such is fatally flawed.
I think if you proved to most JWs conclusively that the 1914 date isn't a Biblical date at all, they would still "wait on the Society," as the GB told Carl Olof Jonnson to do.
Isn't the real reason that most JWs are thoroughly convinced that the WTBTS is "God's organization" completely unrelated to the dates -- it gives their lives a sense of importance and significance what with the kingdom emphasis, name Jehovah, door to door preaching, anti-war, blood issue, anti-birthdays, anti-holidays, etc.?
If the WTS got "new light" and said the key date was, say, 1972 rather than 1914, I think the JWs I know would still be convinced the WTS is God's organization and change right with them as they have with all the failed Armageddon predictions.
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Leolaia
Does that sound about right (in terms of doing the same "1914" calculation with the correct Jewish year)?
No, because the Jewish lunisolar calendar was not a true lunar system like the Islamic calendar (in which the festival of Ramadan wanders over the whole year). Just as in the Babylonian calendar, there would be intercalary months thrown in to harmonize the lunar count with the solar cycle. So 70 Jewish years = 70 "solar" years.
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pirata
No, because the Jewish lunisolar calendar was not a true lunar system like the Islamic calendar (in which the festival of Ramadan wanders over the whole year). Just as in the Babylonian calendar, there would be intercalary months thrown in to harmonize the lunar count with the solar cycle. So 70 Jewish years = 70 "solar" years.
I see. Thanks for your input Leolaia. That is also what is stated in w51 6/15 pg. 383 Questions for readers.