Are JWN posters considered apostate?

by rmt1 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • rmt1
    rmt1

    My JW elder father is going die of liver cancer, and his prognosis is 3 to 12 months.

    I am disassociated and have been out of contact with my family for four years, up until two days ago. I do not consider myself apostate, because I believe that is constituted by actively trying to undermine a JW's faith. But I could be way off.

    I am hoping to remain in contact with my father during his cancer experience but I need to have some idea of what status or standing they assign to anyone who posts or reads a 'life-after-JW' board such as this one.

    In their hierarchy of damnation, does it constitute a Biblical-scale apostacy for someone to post to this kind of board? How about to post severely anti-JW messages (which are to the choir)?

    And what standing do apostate family members have with regard to terminal illnesses and death bed visitation?

    Any serious insights and personal experiences appreciated. Please hold your sympathy.

    Thank you.

  • Awakened at Gilead
    Awakened at Gilead

    Do you need to tell your father you are posting on this board? I am diisassociated, yet that itself is generrally enough for JWs to consider me an apostate.

    And there are plenty of active JWs who post on this board who continue going to the KH and speaking to the friends, so I don't see how posting on this board changes anything.

  • BabaYaga
    BabaYaga

    Yes. They would consider you a spiritual risk, an apostate.

    DO NOT MENTION THAT YOU POST ON THIS FORUM.

    No one needs to know, it is none of their business. Be there for your Dad... and for yourself.

    Love,
    Baba.

  • rmt1
    rmt1

    I'm not certain it is none of their business. The more I think about it, I think my own attitude towards this might be transformed by certain decisions they or he might make. The reason I keep my initials as my username echoes the sentiment that I thought life was not worth living, even with constant familial connection, under that regime of lies.

    Now I would theorize that they acknowledge that there remains a familial responsibility even after a spiritual relationship has ended, and even if that family member has moved away. It is a residual responsibility, but it is as physicists say "non-vanishing" and never reaches Zero. But if a spiritual relationship that was positive, and then became neutral, then later turns negative, such as in the case of apostacy, then it seems possible to me that they could in good conscience cancel or waive the familial responsibility that is otherwise in force for what I shall hamfistedly mangle as "DF'd or DA'd family members in good standing".

    Worst case scenario: Does anyone have experience or knowledge of a case where a dying JW forbid a family member that was allegedly apostate from seeing them and paying last respects before they died? I don't know where their spiritual binding energy is greater than their familial binding energy. It seems possible that in a case where there is some shadow of a doubt that a family member is """""apostate""""", by their particular sequence of qualifications, they might in fact decide that their spiritual needs and their status in the eyes of the congregation will be better if they decline the visit or presense of such """"apostate"""".

    Something is telling me that if they / he insists upon such a stance, then that will be their encouragement to me to wash my hands of the familial responsibility. I am not sure that it is worth cheating, by hiding the fact that I speak my mind, and which they perforce call """"apostate"""", in order to gain access and pay respects to the family member about to die. I do not intend or hope to evade a familial duty by them somehow learning that I post on a board like this. But if they were to discover such a fact, and I won't hide it, then I don't think that is the same as me shooting myself in the foot - it is more them having the chance to demonstrate which of the two of us actually fulfills the verses "love of the greater number will cool off" and "having no natural affection".

    Someone with some life experience please advise me where I am losing the high ground. If they were to call me on this particular board, or """"apostacy"""" in general, where would I gain the high ground by dissembling or lying by omission? To my mind, I would strengthen my father's faith if he had the unfortunate satisfaction of sticking to his guns in refusing to see his apostate son.

    Any observations, experiences, perspectives, please.

  • BabaYaga
    BabaYaga

    Yes, I have life experience with how those who have "fallen away" are treated when a beloved JW family member is dying. I was not DA'd, nor DF'd, nor considered apostate, but I had some awful experiences.

    I am not sure what you consider the high road, here. I'm not sure what you are hoping to accomplish. It would seem to me that your first priority would be the comfort and well-being of your father at this time. What would you accomplish by putting him through undue stress and perhaps even jeopardize your only remaining time with him?

    Many posters here have reported that family members (including their own parents) have died and no one has even bothered to contact them and let them know. You are already fortunate in that you have this contact with your father. You need to examine your own agenda here. This is hardly the time to create a regretable rift (and for what?)

  • Mickey mouse
    Mickey mouse

    In short: yes. Even without participating, the fact that you are reading this forum means you are having "fellowship" with disfellowshipped and dissasociated persons.

    Sorry you are going through this. Many JW families won't let a little factor like terminal illness or imminent death interfere with shunning. Personally, I wouldn't tell them anything.

    MM.

  • no more kool aid
    no more kool aid

    I agree. Don't tell them about posting here or your viewpoints while your dad is dying. I would hate for your to be shut out at this time. I cannot talk to my parents about doctrinal issues or they will "turn me in" I have no doubt about it. So I have to go down as the spiritually weak person who quit going to meetings. Maybe someday circumstances will change within your family, I hope so. Take care.

  • Quandry
    Quandry

    I am not sure what you consider the high road, here. I'm not sure what you are hoping to accomplish. It would seem to me that your first priority would be the comfort and well-being of your father at this time. What would you accomplish by putting him through undue stress and perhaps even jeopardize your only remaining time with him?

    I am with Baba on this. This is not the time to focus on yourself and your issues. Once your dad is gone, he is gone. I have been there, and done that. Both of my parents are gone. They were not witnesses, and we had a less that stellar relationship because they hated JWs. During their last years I did all I could to help them. Please don't look back with regret if your dad is reaching out to you. He is the one who has to face death-can you imagine going through that? How about just don't bring up religious issues, instead focusing on any good family memories from your youth.

    I wish the best for you.

  • momzcrazy
    momzcrazy

    I lost my dad 14 years ago.

    I am going to suggest something others here may not agree with.

    Do whatever you need to do to keep in contact with your dad. Once he is gone, that's it. It leaves a hole in your heart forever.

    Fake it, lie, whatever. But don't let the religion keep you away from your dad's last days.

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    As BabaYaga said:

    Yes. They would consider you a spiritual risk, an apostate.

    DO NOT MENTION THAT YOU POST ON THIS FORUM.

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