(Knock Knock) Who's there?

Coded Logic

If JWs knocked on your door what would you say?

I know JWs don't really do "ministry" anymore (just leave special campaign tracts at the door and run away as fast as they can so they don't have to talk to anyone) but if they ever actually tried to have a conversation with me I wonder what I would say. Most likely I'd ask about Matthew 4:8 where it says the Devil took Jesus to the top of an unusually high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world. I would say something along the lines of, "Do you really believe Satan took Jesus to the top of Mt. Everest? Surely you know you can't see the whole world from the top of a mountain."

When they say something along the lines of, "It's a metaphor" - or - "It's not literal." I would hit them with - "So you don't ACTUALLY believe that happened then?"

Or I might bring up Jonah, "Do you actually believe he was inside a whale for three days? You know someone can't live inside a whale right?" Just to see if I could dredge up any cognitive dissonance. I really wonder what they would say. I have no idea what I would have said had someone hit me with that at the door.

Anyways, just my thoughts. Any particular scriptures or doctrinal question you would bring up?

stan livedeath

why not start at the beginning--ask if they believe god made adam---and eve--? if yes--were they created--in a day ? and what about the talking snake > which bits do they believe ? how do they pick and chose ?

_Morpheus

The watchtowers stance is that 1) jesus was shown a "vision" of all the kingdoms (referance the greatest man publication) 2) yes jonah was literally in the belly of a big fish for three days. The bible says it, its true.

Not that im suggesting you shouldnt try, individual dubbies may actually stop and think but those points likely wont phase an average witness

Simon

why not start at the beginning--ask if they believe god made adam---and eve--? if yes--were they created--in a day ? and what about the talking snake > which bits do they believe ? how do they pick and chose ?

I think it's very effective - if you force religious people to vocalize their beliefs then many will be embarrassed because they know they sound crazy / fundy.

There is no need to be anything but polite with them as long as they are with you. We've had conversations with them and told them that we were brought up as witnesses but left. Being unpleasant doesn't help them - showing that you can leave and be a normal well adjusted and nice person possibly does.

Odrade

They came here in July and I told them I was happy to be an EX-JW, and that they needed to add me to the do not call list.

However, in the past, I've brought up disfellowshipping, and how the Prodigal Son was welcomed back IMMEDIATELY, and that if disfellowshipping is LOVE and is supposed to be compared to a loving parent, how many loving parents would spank their children every day for a year, for an infraction that they were sorry about?

I have been piously told that I "just don't get it." Nope, I think I get it very well.

You can't really argue scriptural doctrine with most JWs, because they don't know their own doctrine, they are "proofed" against arguments by rote training. They parrot, instead of truly learning their doctrine. But since they equate WT policy with "Jehovah's loving arrangements," it can be somewhat more effective to equate those policies with loving their own children or small family members.

OrphanCrow

Any particular scriptures or doctrinal question you would bring up?

Yes.

I ask them if they believe in and follow Jesus.

They say "Yes".

And then I ask them if Jesus shed his blood so that 'mankind' could be saved.

They say "Yes".

And then I ask them this, "If Jesus gave his blood so the whole earth could be saved, why don't you give blood?".

And then they leave.

:)

blondie

The talking snake...I would not have a WTS approved answer. I figured Adam after 30 years and naming the animals for sure and certainly who would have told Eve that snakes don't talk. I did not see the necessity having the "covering cherub" depicted as a snake...why not as an angel? I knew as a kid I would have run to my parents if a snake talked to me and I wasn't a perfect human.

I figured it was an allegory. But that is not WTS approved.

In those days I would ask first what they thought about it.

blondie

Radio Ham

Well, I would say, "You know what's going to happen here today? Or, rather, what's NOT going to happen here today? A conversation between us, about our respective religious belief systems, our religious belief structure, is NOT going to happen. Period. It's not going to happen. It's strictly off-limits with me. Try someone else." And leave it at that.

Radio Ham

sowhatnow

Id ask how it is that they can take litteral the number 144000 but not litteral the fact tehy were virgin men fro mthe 12 tribes of judah.

'If one argues that the 144,000 represents a literal number, he should similarly contend that the group of which that number consists is also literal, i.e., literal Israelites.

That would mean, according to the Watchtower scheme of interpretation, that no one would be in heaven who was not of the actual tribes listed.

This would also exclude Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob — who were never of the tribes of Israel. And yet, that conflicts with Jesus’ affirmation that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will be in the kingdom of heaven (Mt. 8:11).

and where in the bible does it say there will be people who live through armageddon?

where does it say paradise earth? where does it say women go to heaven? or that women are annointed? where does it say on the bible only one chosen kind of people are saved By jesus sacrifice? doesnt it say he dies for all men? whose idea is it to take a parable and turn it into a prophesy?

and who do you think wrote that there gray bible of yours?

(Knock Knock) Who's there?

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