Blood, Fractions Policy and Milk Products compared

Not Feeling It

Hi,

This is my first post on the new site so here goes...

I was reading the post a while back from "V" on blood policy and fractions where it was compared to a ham sandwich. This was a good illustration, but I thought it lacking a bit in that the components exist on their own as food items rather than derivatives. So, I got to thinking about what we use as a whole and a part.

Cow's milk came to mind. We use it as a raw product (albeit pasteurized) and as butter, cream, cheese, soured, cultured, and curds and whey (at least Miss Muffett did). Anyway, here is a well known product where you can use specific components.

I wrote up the detailed components of milk below but the blood policy would be akin to not drinking whole or skim milk but perhaps accepting cream cheeses or the amino acids or phospholipids derived from milk. Much like blood, the major component of milk is water.

I'm sure there are further analogies to be drawn in that it requires dairy farmers to produce milk but a JW philosophy in this illustration would forbid the collection of their own milk, they could only conscientiously get it from someone else.

Enjoy,

-- Not Milking It

// Here's the data on milk details if you really feel like geeking out.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/cgi-bin/list_nut_edit.pl

Milk, whole, 3.25% milkfat

1. Milk – Simple

1.1. Butterfat Globules

1.1.1. Phospholipids

1.1.1.1. Vitamins A, D, E, K

1.1.2. Protein

1.2. Water-based Fluid

1.2.1. Casein

1.2.2. Enzymes

2. Milk - Complex (major components in blue)

2.1. Water - 88.32%

2.2. Carbohydrate (Sugars) - 5.26%

2.2.1. Lactose

2.3. Fat (Lipids) - 3.25%

2.3.1. Fatty acids, saturated

2.3.2. Fatty acids, total saturated

2.3.3. Fatty acids, total monounsaturated

2.3.4. Fatty acids, total polyunsaturated

2.3.5. Cholesterol

2.4. Protein (Amino Acids) - 3.22%

2.4.1. Tryptophan

2.4.2. Threonine

2.4.3. Isoleucine

2.4.4. Leucine

2.4.5. Lysine

2.4.6. Methionine

2.4.7. Cystine

2.4.8. Phenylalanine

2.4.9. Tyrosine

2.4.10. Valine

2.4.11. Arginine

2.4.12. Histidine

2.4.13. Alanine

2.4.14. Aspartic acid

2.4.15. Glutamic acid

2.4.16. Glycine

2.4.17. Proline

2.4.18. Serine

2.5. Minerals - 0.01%

2.5.1. Calcium

2.5.2. Iron

2.5.3. Magnesium

2.5.4. Phosphorus

2.5.5. Potassium

2.5.6. Sodium

2.5.7. Zinc

2.5.8. Copper

2.5.9. Manganese

2.5.10. Selenium

2.6. Vitamins - 0.01%

2.6.1. Thiamin

2.6.2. Riboflavin

2.6.3. Niacin

2.6.4. Pantothenic acid

2.6.5. Vitamin B-6

2.6.6. Folate

2.6.7. Betaine

2.6.8. Vitamin B-12

2.6.9. Carotene, beta

2.6.10. Vitamin A, IU

2.6.11. Vitamin E (alpha-tocopherol)

2.6.12. Tocopherol, gamma

2.6.13. Vitamin D

2.6.14. Vitamin K (phylloquinone)

watson

Seems like a good analogy. Technically speaking, I like it better than the ham sandwich example.

Deputy Dog

A little side note

Milk contains Blood, JWs don't mind drinking it.

Not Feeling It

Yes, I think raw milk would contain white blood cells. I'm not sure if pastuerization removes that.

Breast milk definitely does but that would be a problem, eh?

-- Not Bleeding It

undercover

Cow's milk came to mind. We use it as a raw product (albeit pasteurized) and as butter, cream, cheese, soured, cultured, and curds and whey (at least Miss Muffett did). Anyway, here is a well known product where you can use specific components.

I wrote up the detailed components of milk below but the blood policy would be akin to not drinking whole or skim milk but perhaps accepting cream cheeses or the amino acids or phospholipids derived from milk. Much like blood, the major component of milk is water.

Here's my "milk" argument: if one is lactose intolerant, they can't avoid just whole milk but continue to enjoy cheese, sour cream or butter...they have to avoid all milk products. If they were to ingest the by-prooduct of milk they can become as sick as if they drank whole milk. Even with the major component of milk being water, one can that is lactose intolerant can become sick if they were to eat/drink milk products.

Similarly, if one is to avoid blood based on the sanctity of life argument, then they would need to avoid the fractions of blood as much as they do the whole blood. To take something that is sacred and break it down to its base ingredients doesn't justify the misuse of something that is sacred and represents life.

Nathan Natas

GOOD WORK!

This is probably a superior analogy and means that all the apostate analogists will have to re-visit this issue.

There are other sources for some of the "fractions" of milk also, so a fanatic might insist that tryptophan from turkey was Ok but tryptophan from milk was not. We also have that nifty "mostly water" clause for those who might say that powdered milk is OK in God's eyes but reconstituted whole milk, skim milk, evaporated milk and condensed milk are not.

Pasteurization involves heating the milk briefly to a temperature sufficient to kill pathogens without causing great changes in the flavor or qulaity of the milk. It wouldn't remove any blood cells present, because it is not a filter.

Not Feeling It

Undercover,

I like your argument! It's either wholly sacred or it ain't. Thier own policy is so logically flawed as to be its own undoing. A little lactose anaphylactically shocks the whole lump.

Natas,

Pasteurization involves heating the milk briefly to a temperature sufficient to kill pathogens without causing great changes in the flavor or qulaity of the milk. It wouldn't remove any blood cells present, because it is not a filter.

Agreed. I wasn't sure if the process destroyed biological entities other than said pathogens. The FDA is pretty anal about the ingredients of food down to the hundreth of a percent. I guess white blood cells are not necessary to list perhaps. Not sure there.

Do Jews drink milk? I have a friend who is Jewish. I'll have to ask him. Since they are forbidden from eating blood (a much more reasonable application of the scripture) I wonder if they'd be concerned with the WBC component of dairy.

-- Not Cheesing It

Nathan Natas

I can't say for sure if Jews drink milk, but I can tell you for sure that Kosher Law requires all food processing to be divided into a "meat" side and a "dairy" side because of Moses' law about not boiling a kid in it's mother's milk. Of course Jews use dairy! Cottage Cheese, Cream Cheese, Sour Cream, etc., etc. I just can't say for sure that they drink milk, but my guess is that they do.

nota bene: if your Kosher restaurant serves you a pastrami and swiss cheese sandwich, it ain't a Kosher restaurant!

Not Feeling It

My friend told me milk is Kosher. As you commented, he verified that it must not be mixed with meat.

BTW: I created my version of the JW Blood Policy chart at http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/medical/169490/2/IMAGE-The-Ham-Sandwich-Blood-Policy on page 2.

changeling

I like the "Milk" analogy, but here is mine:

The Pecan Pie

I bake a pecan pie for a dinner party. I place it on the counter to cool. I have to run to the store for some last minute things. On the way out, I remind my husband that the pie is for the dinner party and I tell him not to eat it.

I come back from the store and find the pie is missing a tiny slice. I look in the sink and I find a plate with the crust and pecans from the tiny slice. Only the gooey middle stuff is missing.

When I confront my husband about eating the pie after I asked him not to, can he actually say: "I abstained from the pie" because he only ate a small portion of the gooey middle stuff? Hell no!

changeling :)

Blood, Fractions Policy and Milk Products compared

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